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"Is This The Very First U.S. Coin?" - 1783 Plain Obverse Nova Constellatio Quint

GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 17,481 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 2, 2017 12:51PM in U.S. Coin Forum

So cool and exciting...........the coin is insured for $5 million.


Is This The Very First U.S. Coin?

August 1, 20171:31 PM ET
Scott Neuman



This image provided by PCGS.com/Professional Coin Grading Service shows the front (left) and back of a 1783 plain obverse Nova Constellatio "quint" silver coin. Authorized by Congress, the coin had a value of 500 units in a proposed but later abandoned early American decimal monetary system that would have ranged from 5 to 1,000 units.
AP

*******************************************'

In 2013, David McCarthy spotted a rare coin in an auction catalog and immediately had a hunch it was the first coin minted by the fledgling United States of America in 1783. Not the first run of coins, mind you, but the very first one.

McCarthy, an experienced numismatist (coin collector) bought the silver coin for $1.18 million.

The Associated Press writes:

"The day of the 2013 auction in Schaumburg, Illinois, McCarthy sat in his hotel room with his files and air conditioning cranked on high. He methodically convinced his boss, Donald Kagin, that the coin up for auction was the nation's first. It was a nuanced case since other dealers claimed it was a forgery. But the initial explanation was that mints tended to add inscriptions to the steel dies used to make coins after having engraved the images."

He spent the next four years digging up evidence to prove that he had indeed purchased the fabled first "500" quint.

What first caught McCarthy's eye was the fact that the coin, which was unmistakably one of two rare quints, had no inscription on the front. A similar coin, with a Latin inscription that translates "New Constellation," was found in 1860. The one McCarthy bought was found about 15 years later and was therefore designated "quint Type 2."

He searched through the National Archives, but got conflicting answers. Then, as he was reviewing the receipts for the steel dies used to make the coins, he found evidence that "two of the dies had been recycled and refined after the first coin was struck," the AP writes.

"He compared the beadings on the edges of the different coins, as well as a dent in the eye at the center of the [inscribed] "500" coin and its plain cousin. The evidence all pointed to him having uncovered the nation's first coin," the news agency says.

The president of the American Numismatic Association, Jeff Garrett, has pronounced McCarthy's research as "really, really good."

If McCarthy's evidence is solid, the coin he has was mentioned in the diary of Robert Morris, a Philadelphia merchant who financed the American Revolution and signed the Declaration of Independence. From 1781 to 1784, when the young nation was still governed by the Articles of Confederation, Morris served as the superintendent of finance for the United States.

In an April 2, 1783, entry in his diary, Morris writes of "a Piece of Silver Coin being the first that has been struck as an American Coin."

A week later, he was visited by Alexander Hamilton – who was to become the first Treasury secretary of the United States six years later and who presumably examined the coin himself. Thereafter, Morris writes, the two corresponded on the "subject of the Coin."

A fuller set of coins was minted on April 22 and forwarded to Thomas Jefferson so a third Founding Father could weigh in on the design.

Morris' coin was meant to demonstrate a prototype numerical currency system that would be based on the so-called Spanish dollar. It was never adopted.

Coin Week writes: "It is believed that these two Quints are survivors of that [Morris system] project, as are five or six pieces of other denominations."

How much is McCarthy's quint worth? The AP quotes the ANA's Garrett as saying the closest comparison might be a 1794 U.S. silver dollar that sold for $10 million four years ago. It's not just the coin itself, but the story that goes with it that makes it valuable, Garrett says.

And there's no question that if McCarthy is right, his quint has a fascinating story to tell.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540907608/is-this-the-very-first-u-s-coin

Video of the coin and its owner, David McCarthy.....got to love this guy.

http://www.9news.com/money/old-money-the-first-american-coin-is-on-display-now-in-denver/461160614

https://www.pcgs.com/cert/25263790

Comments

  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not sure what it is, but I really like the look of these. There is some real research going into this claim of being the first.

    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • RegulatedRegulated Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you're at the ANA, stop by and pick up a copy of the article - I think most people who frequent the boards will find the information pretty accessible.


    What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Such an amazing coin, in design, rarity and history. What a thrill it would be to hold it 'in hand'...Knowing - as a virtual certainty - that the Founding Fathers of this great country had likely held it as well.... Cheers, RickO

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2017 7:25AM

    Great research and beautiful piece, but is it more correct to say this is the first pattern than first coin? When this was last offered, the articles said this was a pattern and the article above also says it was never adopted.

    Here's a 2013 CoinWeek article by @Analyst that discusses this as a pattern:

    http://www.coinweek.com/featured-news/coin-rarities-related-topics-u-s-500-unit-silver-pattern-of-1783-type-2-quint-to-be-auctioned/

    Does any of the research indicate this is a coin instead of a pattern?

  • RegulatedRegulated Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All patterns are coins, not all coins are patterns. If you want to be able to accurately identify a first, you have to look at patterns.


    What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
  • KellenCoinKellenCoin Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭✭

    I am at the show and saw it in person. There is a BIG security guard close nearby.

    CCAC Representative of the General Public
    Columnist for The Numismatist
    2021 Young Numismatist of the Year

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  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @afford said:

    @Zoins said:
    Great research and beautiful piece, but is it more correct to say this is the first pattern than first coin? When this was last offered, the articles said this was a pattern and the article above also says it was never adopted.

    Does any of the research indicate this is a coin instead of a pattern?

    Agree but then it would be worth a lot less.

    Worth less than what?

    Yes, patterns are typically worth less than regular issue coins of similar rarity, because collectors don't need the patterns to fill holes in coin albums or registry sets. But Dansco doesn't sell many Nova Constellatio albums, do they?

    Anyway, considering that this particular pattern derives its value and fame from being the first coin struck by the US government, and for being the first coin in the world struck to a decimal standard, the fact that it is a unique pattern isn't such a bad thing.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • dengadenga Posts: 920 ✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    Anyway, considering that this particular pattern derives its value and fame from being the first coin struck by the US government, and for being the first coin in the world struck to a decimal standard, the fact that it is a unique pattern isn't such a bad thing.

    In 1534 Elena Glinskaya (regent for the infant Czar Ivan IV) created a decimal
    coinage system in Russia by making 100 kopecks equal to 1 rouble.

  • RegulatedRegulated Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's the first coin in Western Europe or The Americas to be struck to a decimal standard. The Russian system was first, but didn't have an impact on Hamilton and Jefferson, whereas this coin and the set struck a couple of weeks later did.


    What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think Regulated's research is sound and conclusion correct. The only caveat I would I add is that nothing came of the Nova Constellatio patterns, so their historical impact is minimal and that they were struck under the Confederation, which was not really the same as saying it was a United States issue. The Federal Government was defined and given power under the Constitution in 1787.

    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2017 9:09AM

    @Regulated said:
    It's the first coin in Western Europe or The Americas to be struck to a decimal standard.

    As a point of pride, I'll point out that I was highest bidder in the Forum name-your-price sweepstakes with a bid of $500,000 and my left pinky toe. Pathetic :s

    David scientifically posed a hypothesis:
    Shared his research with several beyond-world-class experts in an effort to prove or disprove it.

    The trail of documentation from Day One gives us a look inside the minds of some of the Founding Fathers, and, most clearly, their intent.
    The technical chronology is iron-clad. You should examine the die image overlays!
    An exhaustive job of finding anything that might refute "confirmation bias".
    And everything available to support it.
    Crack the logic.......

    First coin struck by America.
    Eric Newman is eating his daily ice cream and certainly grinning. o:)

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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  • AmazonXAmazonX Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭

    Gratified, dark near terminal toned dreck. I mean, it's not even in the redbook. Maybe this would be of interest for the 3 or 4 token collectors out there. The date is undesirable(when was the last time you met a 1783 US coin collector? Zero). I don't really see a demand for this "coin". I mean, all I could give you is $10, and that is being generous. Probably a fake.

    -Some coin dealer during this coin's history

  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,781 ✭✭✭✭

    I love the lettering. :)

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2017 12:29PM

    The question in the OP and article "Is This The Very First U.S. Coin?" seems related to the Continental Dollar coin/medal discussion which takes on more significance. For the quint to be the first US coin, is it necessary that the Continental Dollar is not a US coin before 1783, e.g. a European medal?

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,267 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    The question in the OP and article "Is This The Very First U.S. Coin?" seems related to the Continental Dollar coin/medal discussion which takes on more significance. For the quint to be the first US coin, is it necessary that the Continental Dollar is not a US coin before 1783, e.g. a European medal?

    I raised that question with David McCarthy when I reviewed the article prior to publication, and he correctly pointed out that this piece is documented as the first coin struck for the U.S., while the Continental Dollar is not documented anywhere.

    Until somebody finds a long-lost Continental Congress document that authorizes the Continental Dollars, they are not coins made for the U.S.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2017 6:19PM

    @CaptHenway said:

    @Zoins said:
    The question in the OP and article "Is This The Very First U.S. Coin?" seems related to the Continental Dollar coin/medal discussion which takes on more significance. For the quint to be the first US coin, is it necessary that the Continental Dollar is not a US coin before 1783, e.g. a European medal?

    I raised that question with David McCarthy when I reviewed the article prior to publication, and he correctly pointed out that this piece is documented as the first coin struck for the U.S., while the Continental Dollar is not documented anywhere.

    Until somebody finds a long-lost Continental Congress document that authorizes the Continental Dollars, they are not coins made for the U.S.

    Makes sense that the Continental Dollar is not a coin made for the US unless documentation is found. A European medal seems plausible from the discussion.

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  • RayboRaybo Posts: 5,328 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Where's boiler when you need him?
    That is one cool coin CB and thanks for posting "her".

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,482 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I posted this on August 4th. Additional info.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon

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