It seems to have a raised rim, which I am not sure is accurate (I am no expert on these). What makes you think it is a contemporary counterfeit? It is in great condition and does not look like it was a coin that circulated much, It is far more likely to be a later copy than a contemporary counterfeit, so I am curious as to that determination.
I don’t think that is a contemporary counterfeit; it’s too well made. The contemporary counterfeit Pine Tree Shillings I’ve seen were really crude. It’s probably of a 1930s to 1960s vintage copy. There were a lot of them made during that period.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
The next copy, counterfeit, imitation, etc. that you post, maybe start off with a question such as:
Roughly when was this counterfeit made, and is it contemporary or not. Assuming 'contemporary' when it is really 'modern' are two dramatically different concepts.
I don't mean any offense, especially since I like some of the kinds of stuff that you are collecting, but it seems that whoever is selling you these "contemporary counterfeits" is selling you a bill of goods. They aren't the worst replicas I've seen, but they are not overly convincing.
Feel free to post them, though, as it is very educational for others, including me.
From what I have the contemporary counterfeits of the Massachusetts silver coinage have a higher collector value than the genuine pieces.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I purchased 2 large collections in the past 4 years, I took all that was offered to me at a very fair price. I spent 10k on both collections and sold off most of it in 4 years on eBay. These are the oddities that I kept and had questions on. I've already made my money back and then some plus I kept all of the gem mint state coins. The collections I purchased were inherited and therefore the people I purchased them from knew nothing about numismatics and nothing was labeled or graded. I only know it's counterfeit bc I brought it to my local coin shop and they laser tested the metal content and told me it was not a genuine coin. I will now post a pic of the side of the coin.
IMO the coin is less than fifty years old. That is a big range so let's get into detail:
The OP's image looks like a casting; however, based on the edge it is not.
Replicas made after 1972 are supposed to be marked. This is not and there is no evidence of any surface alterations to hide the marking.
None of the contemporary fakes have a thick edge.
The composition does not appear to be silver. If it is, that would make it a more desirable copy - at least to me, and I collect counterfeits.
Based on the above, I believe this piece was made in the last fifteen years in spite of the "Grandma Story about the old family collection it came out of."
From those edges, those pieces are not from the 17th century; they are from the 20th century.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
That's impossible that it is only 15 years old. This particular coin came from my fathers small collection of only a handful of coins. He was a coin dealer in his 20's and is now 70. So it's minimum of 50 years old. All other coins I'm posting are from the 2 big collections.
Nevertheless, if for some reason you cannot ask your father when he got the piece we'll never know for sure. As a student/collector of counterfeit coins, I'll say that counterfeits as this were NOT around in the 1970's or 1980's. If your coin contains silver, that is proof enough for me to stick to my opinion.
@Watchbelieve said:
By the sounds of it, no one has seen this particular counterfeit before.
There have been many copies made of the Pine Tree coinage. They date back to the 19th century.
Here is a Noe 16, Small Planchet Pine Tree Shilling, which may have inspired that copy.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
The piece is still worth something. I'm too cheap but I suggest you try some colonial dealers with "black" collections. Could be worth a dinner for two w/wine.
I don't have my book here but it would be interesting to see if a genuine die exists with the tool mark at the base of the "T" that this piece was copied from. I doubt it as the style of the letters is horrible!
Watchbelieve
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IMHO, It is not contemporary. An image of the edge may hold a clue.
It seems to have a raised rim, which I am not sure is accurate (I am no expert on these). What makes you think it is a contemporary counterfeit? It is in great condition and does not look like it was a coin that circulated much, It is far more likely to be a later copy than a contemporary counterfeit, so I am curious as to that determination.
I don’t think that is a contemporary counterfeit; it’s too well made. The contemporary counterfeit Pine Tree Shillings I’ve seen were really crude. It’s probably of a 1930s to 1960s vintage copy. There were a lot of them made during that period.
I agree that it is circa mid-20th century. I like it though!
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
It may well be a copy but still gorgeous.
No-way, no-how is that contemporary.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Not contemporary ... as others have said. It just does not look like something from the colonies in the 1650s.
The next copy, counterfeit, imitation, etc. that you post, maybe start off with a question such as:
Roughly when was this counterfeit made, and is it contemporary or not. Assuming 'contemporary' when it is really 'modern' are two dramatically different concepts.
I'm not sure it's a counterfeit. The details of Roosevelt's head look accurate to me.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I don't mean any offense, especially since I like some of the kinds of stuff that you are collecting, but it seems that whoever is selling you these "contemporary counterfeits" is selling you a bill of goods. They aren't the worst replicas I've seen, but they are not overly convincing.
Feel free to post them, though, as it is very educational for others, including me.
From what I have the contemporary counterfeits of the Massachusetts silver coinage have a higher collector value than the genuine pieces.
Are the issuers of these in the mid-20th century known?
I purchased 2 large collections in the past 4 years, I took all that was offered to me at a very fair price. I spent 10k on both collections and sold off most of it in 4 years on eBay. These are the oddities that I kept and had questions on. I've already made my money back and then some plus I kept all of the gem mint state coins. The collections I purchased were inherited and therefore the people I purchased them from knew nothing about numismatics and nothing was labeled or graded. I only know it's counterfeit bc I brought it to my local coin shop and they laser tested the metal content and told me it was not a genuine coin. I will now post a pic of the side of the coin.
I'm guessing the side pic will show a seam.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
IMO the coin is less than fifty years old. That is a big range so let's get into detail:
Based on the above, I believe this piece was made in the last fifteen years in spite of the "Grandma Story about the old family collection it came out of."
guaranteed not contemporary
BHNC #203
From those edges, those pieces are not from the 17th century; they are from the 20th century.
That's impossible that it is only 15 years old. This particular coin came from my fathers small collection of only a handful of coins. He was a coin dealer in his 20's and is now 70. So it's minimum of 50 years old. All other coins I'm posting are from the 2 big collections.
By the sounds of it, no one has seen this particular counterfeit before.
I HAVE NOT.
Nevertheless, if for some reason you cannot ask your father when he got the piece we'll never know for sure. As a student/collector of counterfeit coins, I'll say that counterfeits as this were NOT around in the 1970's or 1980's. If your coin contains silver, that is proof enough for me to stick to my opinion.
There have been many copies made of the Pine Tree coinage. They date back to the 19th century.
Here is a Noe 16, Small Planchet Pine Tree Shilling, which may have inspired that copy.
My dad can't remember last week let alone 50 years ago lol. Knowing him.... he got duped and thought it was real.
The piece is still worth something. I'm too cheap but I suggest you try some colonial dealers with "black" collections. Could be worth a dinner for two w/wine.
I don't have my book here but it would be interesting to see if a genuine die exists with the tool mark at the base of the "T" that this piece was copied from. I doubt it as the style of the letters is horrible!
very informative, I'm guessing a black collection is counterfeits?
If you decide to sell I would be interested.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
coin collecting pre internet must have been hell. Or heaven because no one could look up what they had before they sold.