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What's the point of the eBay return time limit, if...
LRCTom
Posts: 857 ✭✭✭
What's the point of the eBay 30-day return limit, if the buyer files a case with PayPal?
A buyer bought a raw coin from me on eBay. He received it, said it was nice, and that he was sending it to PCGS for grading. 42 days later, he contacted me and said he was returning the coin... the PCGS verdict did not please him. He filed a case..not with eBay, but with PayPal, who held up the funds pending their review.
PayPal allows 120 days. When responding to the case, I referred to eBay's 30 day limit. PayPal ruled in the buyer's favor, without an explanation. Obviously I'm accepting the return...what else can I do, when PayPal is holding the funds?
LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics
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This kind of stuff is one of many reasons I have no desire to sell on ebay.
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PP cares more about them than it does about you.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
I stopped using eBay/PayPal more than three years ago when their terms became unacceptable. Read their terms and decide if you want to continue with them. In the end, it is just business.
Let's review..... You hear one bad case out of 1000 transactions ( good transaction hardly ever get reported) and make your judgment on that.
So you choose Not to sell on the biggest coin venue ever with the most buyers.
PayPal offer a fantastic service bar none
I have not had a bad case like that but w the 30 day thing it's possible.
Change your return back to 14 days so block some little &?$ who might pull that. I know on bullion 14 days acceptable and since they reduced sellers discount little incentive do 30 day anyhow.
A return priveledge of 14 days or less standard in coin business. I don't accept returns after return period but never had anyone attempt one anyway.
For the most part yes, but it's not without its warts. That kind of behavior on the part of the buyer would get you drawn and quartered by many here. Just industrial strength tacky and anyone at PP with more than cheese curds for a brain should not have allowed that.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
My return privilege IS stated as 14 days. But that really means nothing, since eBay allows a return claim up to 30 days after the buyer receives the package.
LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics
I just had the exact opposite result with Paypal...
I sold a coin privately to a buyer who tried for a PLUS and a BIG score , then over a month later filed a complaint with Paypal who said buyers remorse was not a reason to demand a refund, and ruled in my favor. Could ebay have influenced the Paypal decision in the OP's case?
Commems and Early Type
If you don't like it, stop using paypal, and accept other forms of payment (I believe this is now allowed). Easy.
To resolve your issue, you can always try calling Paypal to sway one of their reps. If the first one doesn't agree with you, call again, and again. If you are legitimately in the right, eventually a rep will agree with you, from my experience.
Is the buyer going to return the coin now in a PCGS slab?
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
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So what was the PCGS result? Unless we see the actual auction and how the coin was sold, and then the PCGS result, it is impossible to know who is right here.
It has to be the very same coin, a lot of raw coin sellers seal the plastic, which may be a legalistic fine point. He should have paid expedited service if he wanted to fall within the rules. You can report him to ebay for violating their TOS. If he was looking for a deal, fine. He needed to play by all the rules.
He liked the coin and is now letting the plastic get in the way. Unfortunate.
What was the coin?
Collector, occasional seller
I dropped off the eBay thing in Jan 2009 ostensibly because for quite a bit of time I was living in Donets'k Ukraine, but then their terms were a put off when I came back to the USA in 2010.
You seem to be leaving out a substantial part of the story, perhaps deliberately. What was the PCGS verdict that triggered the return? Was the coin deemed not genuine, or genuine but damaged (cleaned, etc.), or authentic and problem-free, but much lower grade than was advertised?
If he purchased the coin raw, sent it in for grading, and is now returning it, do you get it back in the PCGS holder?
Edited to add: was the coin body-bagged by PCGS?
Many sellers offer lifetime return policy for reasons of authenticity.
All comes down to the numbers. If you are doing large volume with decent margins you can eat the occasional chargeback. With the doubling and tripling of Ebay/paypal fees it is not really feasible to do business on Ebay if your are selling and properly representing quality rare coins.
Little statment in terns about being in orginial holder sure helps in cases like this.
What's the point of the eBay 30-day return limit, if the buyer files a case with PayPal?
Seller is pointing out the discrepancy in terms between Ebay + PP.
Answer: It doesn't matter. U R Screwed. Hope that helps.
No bodybag. Of course is was genuine: I like others guarantee authenticity unconditionally. The point was not to start a discussion of whose grade was right, but, as epcjimi1 and several others were able to discern, that the eBay 30-day return limit means nothing when the buyer pays using PayPal.
LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics
So what is PP's time limit to dispute transactions?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
I think we are screwed in that situation as it sounds subject to their whim. When your dealing with some autobot or corporate minion your toast. It sounds like op got a very unlucky draw with that customer.
Yes I agree what is the point of a return period if somebody is empowered to step in like that. Playing in ebays stadium your subject to their fees, rules.
I don't know how big ticket a coin that is - I primarily prefer to sell big ticket material at shows. Most my eBay sales material $300 or less where a 30 pct margin or more possible to at least give me a decent profit after their fees and shipping costs. A show sale I would never have that problem - I consider my show sales final - they would need to get an attorney if dispute.
I have a statement in my eBay return policy that if coin removed from holder returns are void. Hopefully it will deter the crack out / uprgrade / crossover people. I am not in coin business finance their game or pay for their mistakes.
In the end, how is what the buyer did thru PP any different than if he'd filed a chargeback thru his CC company? I'd retry with PP and ask someone there how anyone with a brain or conscience could find in favor of that buyer.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Same as your banks cc. This charge back most likely was initiated by the buyers cc that was used in the eBay transaction & PayPal refused to fight it for unknown reasons. I'm not going to speculate as to the reason, but I'm sure that PCGS not assigning a grade, had a lot to do with it.
Incorrect. It is 180 days on PayPal.
Cost of doing business.
I am coming up on 20 years on ebay, and sell 5 - 10 items a day.
1st, the problem had nothing to do with ebay, it is paypal, so what is the point you are making?
2nd, the paypal terms and conditions to use their service are clearly laid out, and you HAVE to choose to use them on ebay. So if you agreed to the 120 day term on paypal, why are you complaining about it.
So, where's the Beef?
What’s not covered with PayPal Purchase Protection
9. Disputes filed more than 180 days after the purchase for item not received and significantly not as described claims
PayPal is governed by the same rule as the banks are: 120 days (unless it's fraud)
https://chargebacks911.com/everything-need-know-chargeback-rules/
I posted the terms right above. All you have to do is read it. I even highlighted it for those who can't seem to read. This is a dispute, which is allowed for 180 days.
180 days is correct per paypal's terms and conditions which you agree to upon using their service.
Effective Date: November 18, 2014
Dispute Filing Window
We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days. All references in the User Agreement to “Opening a Dispute within 45 days” have been updated to reflect “Opening a Dispute within 180 days.” The Sections these changes appear include the Introduction, 3.15, 13.2 and 13.5.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It applies only for the 2 quoted reasons. All other reason, except for fraud. are still 120 days.
Good lord.
Provide a service / venue to sell stuff, then apply excessive percentages to the final sale price and then, tell the customer the item can be returned up to 120 -160 days depending on circumstances, ebay / paypal gone crazy.
Yes, I know Paypal and ebay have split, TYVM.
I've bought / sold stuff on ebay since 2001. Back then, you got kinda screwed, now you just get f*****.
You can try and spin it anyway you want and you will still be wrong. You have 180 days to file a dispute on any eBay auction or anything else you bought anywhere, if you used PayPal. You may not win, but you can file it and PayPal will hold the sellers money until a decision is made. You seem to be hung up on charge-backs, which is not at all what is being discussed here.