CAC agrees with PCGS grading

When evaluating my Indian cent collection
I submitted 80 Indian cents and 78 of them stickered

Comments

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 5,604 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sweet!

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 27,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2017 3:12PM

    I would interpret that to mean CAC agrees with Stewart's selection of PCGS coins. Amazing results too, especially in such a challenging area where original color is so critical, and often played with....and 2 sets of expert eyes had to agree.

    One could look at all the MS64 and higher RD's on GC shows that 88/360 stickered....a 24% rate (for MS66 RD and higher the rate is 23%). Would be interesting to see if there's a top notch RD collection over at NGC and what their sticker rate is.

    So what 2 coins didn't sticker and do you disagree with the reasoning?

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 353 ✭✭✭

    You got to bad ones aye. LOL. I would love to see that collection!

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How many golds? And wouldn't those be disagreeing with Pcgs grading?

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 27,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2017 2:56PM

    @tradedollarnut said:
    How many golds? And wouldn't those be disagreeing with Pcgs grading?

    Technically yes....if grading standards have remained the same since the coin in question was slabbed. A topic for debate with rattlers and ogh's.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭✭

    Anecdotal. Coincidence is not correlation.
    All that I can surmise is that:
    1) You like (all) your (copper) coins in PCGS holder.
    2) You agree, albeit sometimes begrudgingly, with the grades on the holders.
    3) John Albanese thinks you have exquisite taste.

    @tradedollarnut is already starting to undermine your thesis. Obvious jealousy and schadenfreude brought on by the brutal tongue-lashing he experienced from his erstwhile occasional business partner because he bought something that would not sticker. ;)

    "What matters most is how well you walk through the fire" - Charles Bukowski
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Heh heh heh

    I'm pretty sure he got his fair share of goldies

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2017 7:59PM

    No gold stickers? Ouch

    Did JA say why the 1869 no sticker?

  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 2,845 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2017 8:07PM

    All these World Class sets @ CAC are screwing up my widget-sticker ratio...hurry up already so they can get back to Approving my common date 64's...I'm tired of paying more in shipping fees than sticker fees on my subs ;)

    Erik
  • SoCalBigMarkSoCalBigMark Posts: 2,076 ✭✭✭

    It's the beginning of the end when one of the best eyes for copper felt compelled to get the blessing of someone who is not even in the top ten.

  • goldengolden Posts: 4,340 ✭✭✭✭

    Very well done!

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭✭

    @SoCalBigMark said:
    It's the beginning of the end when one of the best eyes for copper felt compelled to get the blessing of someone who is not even in the top ten.

    When the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse get a Twitter account, I'm selling o:)

    Small size copper.

    Perhaps the coins appreciate the appreciation. :D My guess is that JA got a bigger thrill than Stewart, and the greater part of Stewart's pleasure was the thrill JA got from looking. (Where's the party balloon emoji?)

    I still remember the night Tony bought the '72. B)

    "What matters most is how well you walk through the fire" - Charles Bukowski
  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2017 11:46PM

    I thought there were many who said that CAC was unreliable when evaluating copper? ;) @DMWJR

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • ranshdowranshdow Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭

    @Catbert said:
    I thought there were many who said that CAC was unreliable when evaluating copper? ;) @DMWJR

    Maybe this is the opening act of a ruse to get Stewart to provide that function... for CAC

  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭

    Coloneljessup- Tony bought the 1877 ( Golden Princess) for me not a 72

    For those of you who do not know Coloneojessup - He is a therapist for hire

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2017 12:52PM

    Mistyping, Of course it was the 1877. Coin for the ages, and everyone in the room knew it.

    "What matters most is how well you walk through the fire" - Charles Bukowski
  • rickoricko Posts: 52,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is an outstanding score -97.5%..... Cheers, RickO

  • BarberFanaticBarberFanatic Posts: 540 ✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2017 3:21PM

    Just curious... we're all of the coins sent to CAC in one large submission, or were they submitted over the course of several months in multiple smaller lots? Because that could affect the CAC rate.

    Not saying that DID affect anything; merely saying that it COULD.

    My current collecting focus: Affordable classic coins with exceptional eye appeal.
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 7,149 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'll bet that's a pretty set to look at!

  • thebigengthebigeng Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭✭

    I think it also means you have a great grading eye for Indian cents.

    “Remember that sometimes not getting what you want is a wonderful stroke of luck.” ~ Dalai Lama
  • FadeToBlackFadeToBlack Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:
    All these World Class sets @ CAC are screwing up my widget-sticker ratio...hurry up already so they can get back to Approving my common date 64's...I'm tired of paying more in shipping fees than sticker fees on my subs ;)

    LOL AMEN!!

  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭✭

    Stellar results!! Congratulations. I am curious as well if they were all sent in together or separate submissions?

    I was astounded to get 9 out of 10, but 78 out of 80? And Indian's to boot? Phenomenal!! You certainly have the eye. :)

  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭

    Sent in all at once

  • DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 1,649 ✭✭✭

    I'm certain the purchase prices were hefty anyway but this result should ensure that the collection be insured for roughly 20% more than previously.

    You obviously have a great eye and John Albanese felt compelled to reward that.

    Congrats.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 5,171 ✭✭✭

    In this case, credit goes to the collector. He knows what he is doing and they just agreed.

    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • AnalystAnalyst Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭

    WaterSport: In this case, credit goes to the collector. He knows what he is doing and they just agreed.

    Agreed, CAC was agreeing with Stewart's selections, as Roadrunner said above. Out of curiosity, were many of the coins purchased more than 15 years ago?

    Were many in holders that are more than 15 years old?

    Were any upgraded at PCGS while owned by Stewart?

    How will Coin Collectors Interpret Certified Coin Grades in the Future?

    "In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me
  • SoCalBigMarkSoCalBigMark Posts: 2,076 ✭✭✭

    Now off to Rick Snow!

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 13,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Analyst said:
    WaterSport: In this case, credit goes to the collector. He knows what he is doing and they just agreed.

    Agreed, CAC was agreeing with Stewart's selections, as Roadrunner said above. Out of curiosity, were many of the coins purchased more than 15 years ago?

    Were many in holders that are more than 15 years old?

    Were any upgraded at PCGS while owned by Stewart?

    How will Coin Collectors Interpret Certified Coin Grades in the Future?

    This!

  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 14,586 ✭✭✭✭

    Who's the copper weeny?? You are the boss!!!

  • AnalystAnalyst Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭

    GoldBully directed to Stewart, with a picture of a brochure: Who's the copper weeny?? You are the boss!!!

    In regard to the picture of a brochure posted by GoldBully, Stewart's Lincoln Cents were on display at the 2008 ANA Convention in Baltimore, courtesy of PCGS. IIRC, many of them were in holders from the 1990s. This is one reason why I asked above if many of Stewart's Indian Cents now remain in holders that are more than 15 years old.

    Next to his Lincoln cents, a small number of additional coins from his collection were on display. Stewart's prize 1796 half cent has a considerable amount of original mint red color. I was also overwhelmed by the 1807/6 large cent that Stewart owned at the time

    Is the Naftzger-Blay 1807/6 the only Gem Quality & Full Red ‘Early Date’ Large Cent?

    The Blay 1796 'With Pole' could be the 2nd Most Valuable Half Cent

    "In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me
  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 2,711 ✭✭✭✭

    congrats on an amazing %'age

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • @SoCalBigMark said:
    It's the beginning of the end when one of the best eyes for copper felt compelled to get the blessing of someone who is not even in the top ten.

    top 11? Be more specific.

  • Sent in all at once

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭

    Super percentage. Congrats.

    Investor in Modern and Vintage US Coins
  • Look Stewart-now Analyst wants to be an expert on your collection! Does he even have a clue about it? You ever bid against him for any?

  • Forgot to mention, Glasser may have (or had) the #1 registry set, Stewart by far has the #1 quality set of coppers.

  • au58au58 Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭

    Are they worth more now?

  • Phenomenal results! good eye!

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭✭

    If you bought them from recognized experts like Mr. Snow, I'm not surprised but you probably paid a premium for quality. I'm not sure how cac sees fly specks and other minor defects.

  • AnalystAnalyst Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭

    Specialist: Look Stewart-now Analyst wants to be an expert on your collection! Does he even have a clue about it? You ever bid against him for any?

    I did not claim to have expert knowledge of every single coin in Blay's Collection. I have known him for decades. I have witnessed Blay buy coins at auctions, coins which I had carefully examined prior to the respective auctions. As I indicated earlier in this thread, Stewart graciously permitted me to take a few coins out of the display cases of his copper coins at the 2008 ANA Convention in Baltimore.

    Additionally, gem quality half cents and large cents are specialties of mine. I have spent time studying a majority of the gem, pre-1800 half cents and large cents that survive Additionally, I have discussed these with other experts, including J. Albanese, S. Travers, J. McGuigan, C. McCawley and R. Burdick, although I do not always agree with their respective views. Richard played the lead role in selecting half cents and large cents for the Pogue Collection.

    As for the early coppers that Blay owns, pursued or did own that are mentioned in the following articles, I standby my analyses, which I take to be well substantiated. If someone wishes to disagree wiith my interpretations of coins with a Blay pedigree, I would like to engage in rational and civil discussions in this thread. Non-Blay coins should be discussed in other threads, as this thread is about Stewart's collection.

    Is the Naftzger-Blay 1807/6 the only Gem Quality & Full Red ‘Early Date’ Large Cent?

    The Blay 1796 'With Pole' could be the 2nd Most Valuable Half Cent

    The Marvelous Pogue Family Coin Collection, Part 21:
    Copper Type Coins in 5th Sale

    "In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me
  • tough talk from a wannabe. I think it says it all when on just about every thread Blay asks you if you have ever bought or sold a coin and who made you the expert? you are not his buddy.

    of the names you just posted it is a well known fact one can't grade at all-and you call him and expert? yet again it shows what you don't know. dude get your facts right

    there is no analysis needed on blays set. he is a unique collector who is sharper then 95% of the dealers out there. every time his coins are displayed, it is major drool time. they gave delloy hansen collector of the year at PCGS, they should have done that for blay years ago.

  • AnalystAnalyst Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭

    Specialist: ... tough talk from a wannabe.

    This is clearly an insult from a participant who is both anonymous and hostile. Should the moderators become involved?

    I have been the winner of the NLG award for Best All-Around Portfolio on multiple occasions. Other than QDB and a couple of veteran auction cataloguers, I have written the most about specific rare coins. .

    For more than two decades, I have been the leader in reporting news regarding rare, classic U.S. coins, and in analyzing coins, collections and auctions. Please consider more than 380 articles on CoinWeek.com, more than fifty articles that were published on CoinLink and hundreds of articles in Numismatic News newspaper and other Krause publications. Additionally, as has been stated on the CoinWeek site, I am involved in private consulting and other research projects. I have certainly tried very hard to be of service to coin collectors.

    My series of articles on the Pogue Family Coin Collection recently won another award from the NLG.

    Pogue Family Coin Collection Part 18 – Half Dollars and Bust Dollars Fare Well in 4th Auction

    The Marvelous Pogue Family Coin Collection, part 1: Finest 1796 –97 Draped Bust Half Dollar

    The Marvelous Pogue Family Coin Collection, part 16 – Capped Bust Dimes

    Specialist: ... if you have ever bought or sold a coin and who made you the expert?<//i>

    Would the salesperson who sells the most cars or the most Hummers be the most knowledgeable about motor vehicles? Is is true that there are people who have sold many expensive cars yet have no idea as to how an engine works?

    Specialist: ... you are not his buddy.

    I never claimed to be a friend of his. I provide honest opinions about coins regardless of whether the respective owners are my friends or people who I am not thrilled about. In another thread, I made positive remarks about the Cardinal S-2, PCGS MS-65 Chain cent. It is strictly uncirculated and it is a gem.

    Also, I did not analyze Stewart's whole collection. Please read these two articles before drawing conclusions about them. I made clear that the Blay pedigree is significant, though I examined the coins myself and consulted others including JA.

    Is the Naftzger-Blay 1807/6 the only Gem Quality & Full Red ‘Early Date’ Large Cent?

    The Blay 1796 'With Pole' could be the 2nd Most Valuable Half Cent

    "In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me
  • you are not any leader of reporting . you are delusional.

    you are not a coin dealer or a person who actively works the bourse floor buying and selling so quit trying to impress the world you know something. I can write a book on flying and act very credible, could I fly a plane-hell no! I do know everything there is to know though. I sure would be the wrong person to be any ones pilot.

    on rare occasion you do write some good articles. other times like these you do not. didn't coinweek shut you down do to dealer complaints?

    why always promote your self as you do all the time?. didn't blay just take you to task on another thread? you are almost disrespecting Blay by commenting anything about his set.

    you already gave wrong information here-one of the dealers you mentioned is a well known in the community for his complete lack of grading abilities. your comments that this guy is good can be very harmful to people

    please quit trying to be something you are not. just stick to histories of coins, not personal opinions of their grades.

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 5,604 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Analyst, the humility award seems to be missing from that long list. Did you misplace it?

  • AnalystAnalyst Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭

    Wabbit: Analyst, the humility award seems to be missing from that long list. Did you misplace it?

    My apologies, Wabbit, I did not intend to irritate you or the others who seek knowledge on this forum. But, it was me who was attacked in a nasty manner by someone who may have no intention of learning and is poisoning this forum. My feelings were hurt and my work is being insulted.

    I ask Wabbit and others to read all of my posts to this thread. I stayed on topic, coins that Stewart Blay owns, did own or has commented upon. I drew attention to Blay's accomplishments. I mentioned his display at the 2008 ANA Convention in Baltimore. In the cited articles, the focus is on the coins, not on Blay personally. I am a strong believer that coins should have names and pedigrees are extremely important.

    It is widely known that Stewart is a foremost grader, perhaps the #1 grader, of red Indian Cents and Lincoln Cents. I never said otherwise. I have drawn attention to early coppers that are tied to him as well. This is especially important because red color on early copper is often unnatural. Stewart's stamp of approval is meaningful in regards to early coppers that have considerable red color. Linking a coin to Blay often serves a legitimate educational purpose.

    Specialist: on rare occasion you do write some good articles. other times like these you do not.

    I have already indicated that my articles have won numerous awards. There are many people who like them. This remark by "Specialist" is nasty, violates the rules of this forum, and is mindless. It does not contribute to this thread or to education in general.

    Specialist: didn't coinweek shut you down do to dealer complaints?

    No, I voluntarily stopped contributing articles to CoinWeek for a while. As far as I know, one female dealer is the only dealer who has ever complained.

    Specialist: ... you are almost disrespecting Blay by commenting anything about his set.

    "Specialist" is "disrespecting Blay" by making nasty remarks in a thread that Blay started. Moreover, if "Specialist" had actually read my posts or my articles, she would know that I did not detail remarks about this set. I have not examined Blay's set of Indian Cents. I commented on early coppers, as I said, and other coins with a Blay pedigree. Again, my focus was on the importance of those coins, not on Blay personally.

    Specialist: ... you already gave wrong information here-one of the dealers you mentioned is a well known in the community for his complete lack of grading abilities. ...

    Although John Albanese and Scott Travers are not immersed with early copper specialists, I am certain that each of them has excellent abilities in regard to grading copper. The other three are very well known and highly respected among early copper fanatics.

    Besides, I hope that I made clear that I make my own decisions regarding the grades of coins and I accept input from other experts. The input is not necessarily a numerical grade. The input might relate to originality of color, the extent to which a coin has been oiled, the extent of corrosion, indentations in the planchet, pedigrees, condition census information and other issues. I have not posted any "wrong information." On this forum, I am not recommending dealers.

    Specialist: please quit trying to be something you are not. just stick to histories of coins, not personal opinions of their grades

    This remark involves commands from a participant who is nasty and is posting anonymously.

    It is very important for experts to express opinions about grades. As @privaterarecoincollector notes, the certifications of coins change over time and are often controversial. When I grade a coin and see it again five years, it is often true that I assign the exact same grade to it. There is a need for collectors and researchers to have reference points that are separate from certifications. Also, it is important to discuss the reasons for assigned numerical grades. I provide or can provide reasons for my grade-assignments. I often provide logical arguments, not just opinions.

    If a coin has the technical status of a 4 and the eye appeal of a 6, then should it be graded as 65? Of course, the answer depends upon the coin. Nevertheless, public discussions about the physical characteristics of specific coins can enable more people to learn about coins and coin grading. How important are weakness of strike or light scratches in the outer reverse fields?
    It is important to discuss reasons for grades and to analyze the factors involved.

    "In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me
  • you did it again. you mentioned a dealer who can not grade. do not try and debate me and act like you know something. if you know so much, then why are you not making six figures a year buying and selling?

    I am not nasty, I am truthful. been around the block too long to listen to tripe. awards are meaningless. the awards you got were for fiction. what collections have you built?

    as far as private collector, sure everyone of his coins is great-not. he refuses to admit several of his were as upgraded as the finger he is pointing as other coins. sad but true this happens. its a shift in the curve that's all. the prices reflect that

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 8,767 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2017 10:28AM

    .

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 38,276 ✭✭✭✭

    @STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said:
    When evaluating my Indian cent collection
    I submitted 80 Indian cents and 78 of them stickered

    You're good. I submit that many to PCGS and get 78 back in genuine holders.

    Practice makes perfect, and nobody is perfect. So practice being nobody, and you will be perfect.

  • PCGS and NGC should use Blay's sets as the grading review sets!

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