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Received submission back from CAC w/ a note on a Mercury Dime- UPDATE: GRADE + TruView POSTED BELOW!
ShadyDave
Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭✭✭
The sticky note said "Nice coin, but PVC on obv." I now see what they are referring to. Below are a couple of pictures showing it. You can see a bit of haze on libertys neck from certain angles/light.
I'm not really sure what to do with the coin now, especially since it doesn't look like it's bad and has presumably been in this holder for 15+ years. Do you think it's Actually PVC? I didn't call CAC to discuss, didn't feel like bothering them over this.
Should I crack it out and try to neutralize the PVC in acetone? Do you think that would expose damage underneath? Do you think dipping it would work better or should I just sell it?
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Call PCGS customer service and explain the problem. They should conserve the coin under the guarantee.
Considering that the PCGS price guide pegs it as a $75 coin, I'd just sell it.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Just make sure you keep the sticker and cherish it if ja wrote it.
Don't spend a lot of time or money on it. It's just another problem coin.
I have gotten those notes and I knew there was no PVC because I soaked the coin in acetone myself. Crack it out, soak it in Acetone and go after it with a q tip in the acetone. If it is PVC, it will come off. Send it back in for grading. Coin looks better than 64 anyway.
At least they had the decency to write down the problem.
Either sell it as-is or keep it. Any PVC that might be on the coin has been there at least since 1998, when PCGS transitioned away from the OGH. In my opinion, this is not a coin that is worth additional expense or effort.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I still haven't decided what to do with it. More feedback is welcome and I'm learning from this thread and the process.
I originally purchased the coin as I thought it was undergraded and there is about a 4x jump to 66FB which I don't think is far fetched for this coin (PVC aside). @djm I didn't even think of the PCGS guarantee, I'll definitely think about that.
I think I'm going to bring it to one of my local LCS owners and ask for his opinion too./
easily detectable
If You think it has a shot at upgrade and want to gamble, your only option is to crack it and acetone away the pvc hoping no underlying damage then submit raw. Or send out to be conserved and regraded. Otherwise sell it.
Sell...
Haha, thanks. Can you give any advice as to how I can determine the difference between dip residue and PVC going forward?
Here's a example of dip residue that forms on the surface of a coin which wasn't properly neutralized. It starts off as light gold, then turns brown. Once nearing terminal the browns deepen and gain some dark electric blue. As the residue eats into the surface of the coin the spots are bluish black. What's seen on this coin below is commonly described as toning.... It's not. Dip residue usually starts to turn within a few months after being slabbed and continues it's progression over the years to come. If you want to avoid the tentative risk of was that newly slabbed coin properly neutralized or not avoid anything bright white recently graded. To remedy a coin that's in a pre terminal stage it will have to be re-dipped in a diluted solution and neutralized afterward. This will dull the surfaces down some more as with each dip the surfaces are stripped.
CAC is basically saying that the coin would have beaned save for the PVC. I'd send it to PCGS under their guarantee or crack it, conserve it yourself then regrade. It's got a chance at MS 65 FB which is a great tradeoff for a lost OGH.
@Wabbit summed up perfectly.
pcgs used to take care of this problem for free, but not anymore.
PVC doesn't just mean the active green goo. That stuff turns to acid that permanently etches the coin's surface. Acetone can't help this stage - the damage has been done. I had a couple of rattlers come back with this sticker note, talked to them about it, and was told what I have said here.
By the looks of that neck, the coin may be in the etched stage, beyond the help of acetone. Just remember what it looks like to avoid it in the future.
I would do the PCGS conserve route, nothing really to lose that way. They know a lot about coin conservation and likely can do a better job than any amateur attempts. Let us know what you decide. Cheers, RickO
They won't anymore. PCGS will want you to submit under the conservation tier and pay a fee. It isn't worth it. Sell the coin as is.
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@291fifth said: "Don't spend a lot of time or money on it. It's just another problem coin."
IMO, it is NOT a problem coin as it can be fixed very easily. It was straight graded by our host too. CAC said it was a nice coin (with PVC).
So, if you know what you are doing fix it yourself. The coin may come back as a 65 unless there are some hairlines on the face. Otherwise, sell it since there is little money involved.
@Wabbit2313 said: "I have gotten those notes and I knew there was no PVC because I soaked the coin in acetone myself. Crack it out, soak it in Acetone and go after it with a q tip in the acetone. If it is PVC, it will come off. Send it back in for grading. Coin looks better than 64 anyway."
I agree with most of this - especially the grade. When a coin looks gem and it gets a low grade there is usually a fine swipe of hairlines on the obverse relief. Speaking from experience, acetone WILL NOT remove all types of PVC with a simple soak.
Qualifier: I have never soaked a coin with PVC longer than over a weekend. Some PVC still remained. I've been told that there are better and faster ways to remove it.
If you have to crack it out of the holder, fool around with it with chemicals and then pay another fee to have it regraded and slabbed IT IS A PROBLEM COIN!
LOL. Whatever. Nevertheless, while it is in the original holder IT IS NOT a problem coin!
BTW, I've heard that a very famous numismatist/grader (far above OUR pay scale) once said in a public forum something to the effect that: "Any coin worth sending in once is worth sending again."
Some problems are easy to fix, and then they are no longer a problem.
PCGS will charge you $30 if they can restore the coin, that includes reslabbing the coin, but that doesn't include postage. Probably doesn't financially make sense on a $75 coin.
If it was mine I would dip it in E z est 50/50.
The best part is that since it didn't sticker due to the alleged PVC, it didn't cost me anything to have CAC evaluate the coin since I'm a collector-member. That is part of the reason I sent to CAC instead of cracking it and re-submitting it. Pretty much 100% upside. Pretty awesome service for collectors if you ask me...
If anyone has pointers on how to differentiate PVC from dip residue or haze, I'm all ears.
What you ask is best shown in a class with examples. Quick reply:
PVC is "code" for the chemicals in plastic that gets on our coins. It can take many forms from a sticky liquid residue to a haze of different colors, usually green, whitish, or gray shades. Many times it is in the form of a haze but also occurs as spots and blobs.
The only color I've seen for dip residue is brown.
I recently bought a PCI old holder 1888-s $1 in an MS62 red holder noting the PVC, I dipped it in "Conserv" and it graded MS61 at NGC. Easy problem usually a quick dip.
PVC is no longer covered by PCGS's guarantee. They would be happy to conserve it for a fee. But, as others said, is it worth it for a $75 coin?
If it were mine I'd crack it and conserve it myself, first with acetone. If that didn't do a perfect job I'd try a diluted ezEst dip.
If I thought it then had a shot at 65 or higher I'd pay for it to be graded.
Lance.
Just curious if many coins have permanent damage from PVC? What are the coins with the highest risk, copper, bronze and other cents?
Just for the record, I once sent an Economy Submission to NGC. They discovered a Barber Quarter with PVC in my submission. After contacting me about it they conserved the coin, graded and encapsulated it then shipped the entire order after about a 5 day delay.
Moral to the story, If you can't remove the PVC maybe they still can.
I'd sell it.
Grades popped on my latest submission yesterday and as usual I was very happy with the results. I submitted 3 mercury dimes (1929, 1934 and 1941-D) along with coins for other people, one being the 1929 dime from this post. The 1929 was graded MS-65FB, a 1point upgrade. Thought it could go 66-FB, but the reverse must have held it back. I'll post the other two dimes when I have a minute later tonight.
I ended up cracking the 1929 out of its holder and did my best to neutralize the PVC with acetone and using a q-tip (carefully). What are your thoughts on the coin itself after I used acetone? I'm going to keep it in my possession for a while to see if/how stable it is. I took advantage of the quarterly special for free TruViews, so here is the TruView of it... Hopefully you enjoyed seeing the whole process play out!
You did a fantastic job, congrats
And yes it was nice to follow this process and see how it played out.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Looks nice and I agree with the 65.
Nice job! I have never tried to conserve a coin in any way. Was this you first time trying? How easy would you say the process was?
Matt
I realize that the graders have their hands full doing their jobs, but it would just take a few seconds with an acetone dip to remove the offending substance saving all a good deal of trouble. ICG and Anacs include conservation options; the first for free the second charges a nominal fee if they believe that conservation would improve the coin(s).
Nice looking 29. I agree with MS65....probably will never 66 and really is it worth all the trouble and expense?
I think this is the link to the submission: https://www.pcgs.com/Membership/sharedorder.aspx?OrderNo=21270652&Year=2017&Month=8
Nice 1929!
Hahaha, yes it is. The first 3 coins are mine (1929, 1934 and 1941-d) and the rest are one of my buddies. He bought the 1915-d half for melt.... and wanted TruViews of the other 5 low value coins due to their toning and quarterly special going on.
Not my first time, I use acetone a lot. I usually stay away from dip (e-zest), but have used it a few times for coins and other times to learn what it does and how it works. I have played around with MS-70, but don't really collect proofs/moderns so I don't have much of a need to use it. It took me 10 minutes w/ a q-tip and some pure acetone to get rid of the PVC. I was unsure what would be under the PVC, but I'm happy with the results. Experimenting on common coins is the best way to learn and not ruin coins with numismatic value.
PCGS does have a conservation service, however, I was unhappy with the only time I used them. They don't tell you what they do to the coin and my coin looked exactly the same as I submitted it. I had to call their customer service to make sure they did have it go through conservation....so I'd rather learn early on and do it myself instead of paying the restoration fee ($30 + 1% of the value of a coin) for them to dip a coin in acetone...
Thanks. I agree it is accurately graded right now, but thought there was an outside chance (~20%) it could come back a 66-FB. This holder is the coins final resting place... while in my possession.
Thanks!
I would guess- just a guess- that without the pvc its very likely this coin would have gotten a gold sticker- hence the special note