The best way to prevent fake coins in fake PCGS holders going forward is:
Coin Finder
Posts: 7,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
In my opinion, in addition with all the things they already do.....
Every raw coin submitted to PCGS for grading (above a graded value of 50 bucks) is also photographed on all 3 sides before encapsulation and then photographed again in the holder on all 6 sides. Also these new holdered coins will need to be dated on the holder.
What is your ides to prevent this going forward
1
Comments
My method , I buy only raw coins that I touch with my own greasy paws . I also keep them raw forever .
I don't think there is a way to prevent Ali Baba from faking slabbed coins , they will just go back to the drawing board and adjust to whatever steps are taken. The profit potential is just too high
...maybe the new QS will lead to all coins being photographed. People on eBay message me all the time referring to secure plus as "Gold Shield" and that they prefer to collect it vs regular label, LOL...maybe PCGS should ditch the regular label all together and split the cost between regular and SP and go forward with SP only...that would ensure that every single coin submitted will be photographed going forward. It may also get Phil a raise
I think it would be good for the future of PCGS Set Registy also. Think about every coin you buy in PCGS plastic comes with a MAX TrueView...the only people that get hurt are Slab-Doctors, Counterfeiters and Garage-Photographers...let's roll
Your idea won't prevent fake coins in fake PCGS holders, it'll just allow you as a seasoned collector a method of preventing the purchase of such material.
peacockcoins
Of course if such measures are implemented, then they will provide fake TruViews as well...Easily done.. Cheers, RickO
The death penalty!!!
by public hanging!
A suggestion I don't think I've heard of before:
PCGS could encrypt all of the textual information on the front label of their slab using a PCGS private key, and add a line (barcode?) of the encrypted version. Using PCGS' public key, one could decrypt the encrypted information and see if it matched the printed information on the slab.
No other company would have PCGS's private key to create the encrypted data.
Should work until quantum computers become a reality.
http://www.shieldnickels.net
@howards... and what would prevent the counterfeiters from getting the key and just proceeding from there? What is devised by humans can be circumvented by humans.... Old locksmith adage....no lock or combination system devised, is unbreakable.... Cheers, RickO
That is an intense amount of professional photography, who's gunna pay the pro .....?
PCGS needs to become more pro active in ridding the market of them. In the long run they are the victim.
Seems most of them appear on ebay. Maybe a small reward program or other incentive to CU members to report them to PCGS who in turn will need to dedicate the resources to actively work with ebay on rounding them up. Simply deleting the listings does not remove the fakes from the market. PCGS needs to work with ebay on a method that allows PCGS to covertly buy them up at no actual cost to PCGS. PCGS also needs to spearhead a strong criminal case against all sellers of fakes.
PCGS should also actively pursue legal action against alibaba.com, a primary source of fakes. A joint "task force" by the major TPGs might be the ticket.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Education is the first defense of course. The ANA should be involved and every coin club..
A solution needs to be found, it may not be permanent, it my not stop all of it, but we have to fight the crooks, we have a right to fight the bad guys. We need to protect the numismatic community from the youngest to the oldest the wisest to the beginner from these people.
Pictures of all coins like NGC does will prevent most of the problems. And they should be better images than NGC's versions. Their's are too dark.
PCGS takes TrueViews of all international coins since they require PCGS Secure for those. This would help a lot with US coins too, both counterfeit and doctored coins.
As for discoverability, the PCGS slab could use similar text as the TrueView: "Verify the authenticity of this coin at PCGS.com" along with a QR code to the coin's cert verification page. This way, anyone running across the slab would know to go directly to the coin's page on their website to see the TrueView. This text can be added now for all TrueView/Secure coins.
Some sort of unique marker in the plastic itself, but that would be a "from now on" thing, just like almost any fix will be.
One solution that would cover older, slabbed coins could be a photo database of all slabbed coins by cert number, including photos supplied by auction houses, dealers and collectors, etc. There are collections of counterfeit slab photos that could be entered as well. If you typed in any cert number, you could get a variety of photos and opinions on whether a coin was legit or counterfeit.
Links to auctions are already often found thru the cert number lookup. PCGS could try adding a place where collectors/dealers could upload their pix to. There would need to be IMO a way to weed out the low value stuff.
The current links to HA and others are good. More auction houses would be useful, especially historical eBay photos via something like what WorthPoint does.
I think uploading photos of counterfeits with the same cert numbers could help as well so searching by cert number would show both legit and counterfeit photos. There are existing photo collections of counterfeits that could be enhanced with a searchable database.
Sorry, but the judicial system needs to make serious examples of rare coin counterfeiters also. IMO.
A simple solution: you know that sticker that is on your DVR or cable box that says "void if removed" and if you open it the sticker automatically pulls itself apart and leaves the word "void" CLEARLY VISIBLE showing tampering?
Well; put those on the INSIDE of the PCGS plastic holders. Any attempted entry into the slab = VOID being shown. Further, I suppose it would be possible for said sticker to be able to detect the presence of sulfur and change color?
Just an idea you saw it here first. If this gets implemented I want big bucks for the ideas!
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
incarcerate and publicize.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
That's the reason it's called a private key. PCGS never has to release it.
BTW, this scheme is the basis for all public-key cryptography in effect now. Your objection is true for all users of cryptography. If the owners of the key don't protect the key, nothing is secure.
http://www.shieldnickels.net
CAC stickers.
Microdots.
This wouldn't work well since the counterfeiter could just copy the encrypted data representation (e.g. barcode) verbatim from a valid slab and print it on their counterfeit slab.