1887 Vam12A Gator/Clash Paramount Holder Fake?

treybenedict

I recently submitted this coin into NGC, and recieved a call telling me that they could not verify the authenticity of the paramount holder. I find this odd for I bought a large group of these from a dealer in Seattle, from which he had a large hoard. Here are the photos, any information would help.

LindeDad

I think you need to ask across the street. On their forum.

treybenedict

@LindeDad said:
I think you need to ask across the street. On their forum.

I'm asking if the holder is fake, or if it is a variety that is rare/uncommon. I was confused why they called me about the holder. NGC has not seen this therefore they believe it is a fake holder.

steveben

@LindeDad said:
I think you need to ask across the street. On their forum.

it's a question about the paramount holder...not NGC.

oih82w8

Where are these holders made at? OP top image; MADE IN CA(NADA)?

treybenedict

@oih82w8 said:
Where are these holders made at? OP top image; MADE IN CA(NADA)?

It does Indeed say "MADE IN CANADA"

oih82w8

Is the letter format correct? I have seen a few, but the words were stamped on the holder where the viewer could read it from the front, not the back like yours. I have been wrong before.

treybenedict

@oih82w8 said:
Is the letter format correct?

The lettering looked to be smaller and slightly too the left as shown in the photos.

steveben

this one looks like yours:

treybenedict

anyone else have any ideas?

AUandAG

I don't understand why you would care about the holder. Is that what is important here and i'm just missing it?

bob

treybenedict

@AUandAG said:
I don't understand why you would care about the holder. Is that what is important here and i'm just missing it?

bob

They will not grade the coin due to the questionable authenticity of the holder.

DIMEMAN

Send it to PCGS. They should grade the coin not the holder.

AUandAG

Got it, you're trying to get the coin in the holder graded like NGC does with the GSA dollars. Don't know why but to each their own. I'd throw the Paramount holder out and put it in PCGS plastic.

bob

ricko

I do not see the importance of the holder.... Nice to display, no added value... if you want the coin graded, trash the holder. Cheers, RickO

johnny9434

yeah, what ricko said.

coindeuce

The clear acrylic of the holder looks legitimate, but the texture of the insert doesn't look right. Your insert has the texture of smooth human skin, including what appear to be pores. Compare that to the insert of the 1885-O shared by steveben. The surface texture is different, with more of a crazed texture. Unless there are multiple comparative examples of inserts to be found that match yours, it is questionable. The 1885-CC below is a representative example of the black insert with the crazed surface texture commonly seen in these holders.
ebay.com/itm/1885-CC-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-Paramount-International-Holder-Mint-State-/362031620545

Rampage

I wonder if NGC is questioning whether the holder has been tampered with, rather than the authenticity of it.