PCGS Database Hypothesis: let's figure this out!

Datentype

Having heard a number of people see high grade "one of a kind" coins dissapear from the PCGS online pop report, I propose the following theory:

These coins are being loaded to the population database after they are sealed and scanned and in verification #1. These coins are not yet finalized grades.

This does not happen all of the time but it does happen some of the time. PCGS will not own up to this when i ask them. They say it's impossible "The process is set up to load after "final verification". It is possible that some of you have figured this out or have a better explantion or more insight. Please let me know your thoughts and let's get down to a final explanation on this one. I Have personally been following this and my one of a kind coins drop out of the pop report often - one just yesterday.

Thanks for the help!

Mark

keithdagen

Mark,

Maybe we should take screen caps of the online reports when we see the coins appear, and bring them to Customer Service's attention. Then do it again when they disappear.

littlewicher

It seems like PCGS would be a little more organized.

Datentype

Good idea Keith but I think you know that the customer service is well quite frankly "Lame". I have taken this up with them and they say that it's impossible according to the way they are told that the process works. I propose that we talk directly to the guy who posted the thread about working with a Programmer in the late hours the other day. He was some sort of project Manager or Administrator, does anybody remember his screen name? If enough of us have an interest in this thread, maybe we can shake this one loose by contacting him about it.

keithdagen

bj@collectors.com, screen name BJ (a she) works with the Registry heavily and can get you in contact with the right person to talk to about the problem.

Datentype

Thanks Keith, I have emailed her and maybe we will get to the bottom of this. They will probably say that I have a loose screw but.........................maybe I do! I have logged way too many hours gazing at ABE!

BJ

Hi Everyone,

Wish I had answers for your questions, but I really am not involved with the day-to-day operations at PCGS and don't know how the Population report is managed.

There are actually two people at PCGS that you can contact about this matter. One is Rick Montgomery, the President of PCGS. His email address is rickm@collectors.com.

The other is Charlie Kahler, who is the Customer Service Manager. His email is kahlerc@collector.com.

wondercoin

Mark: I agree. This should be investigated. So far, we have seen:

1. KY(p) and NC(p) quarters in MS69 dissapear from pop report 2 weeks ago after appearing.

2. (2) PA(d) quarters in MS68 (pop 1 and 2) appeared and now have dissapeared.

3. (3) pop top Lincolns (which Gerry can provide here) appeared and dissappeared last week.

PEOPLE ARE BUYING AND SELLING COINS BASED, IN PART, ON THIS POP INFORMATION. Something is going on here and PCGS should find out what it is, imho.

Perhaps BJ can forward this thread to Rick's attention next week? Wondercoin.

kieferscoins

<< <i>PEOPLE ARE BUYING AND SELLING COINS BASED, IN PART, ON THIS POP INFORMATION. >>



I agree that this should be resolved, but buyers should also change their ways and not live by the pop reports. Their flaws have been discussed before, and with the examples above we can see that there are still problems with freshly made coins.

Cameron Kiefer

Gerry

The three Lincolns which appeared the week of May 30 and disappeared the week of June 6 are 1980D in ms68, 1986 in ms69 and 1987D in ms69. Mark's theory may well be on the mark (pun intended) because when the 1980D in ms68 was deducted, a 1980D in ms67 was added. Similarly when the two ms69s were deducted, ms67s in those issues were added.

Is this because preliminary grades were changed (Mark's theory) or was it just that entry errors were corrected?

I have a simple computer system which tracks changes in Lincolns from one week to the next and you'd be surprised how many negative changes there are, almost every week. The above three cases, this past week, were highlighted by the fact that all three "would-have-been" pop 1s. I spent some time trying hard to track them down, only to find 7 days later they had disappeared.

No one is criticizing PCGS, but it would be nice to know what we are dealing with.

Datentype

I have actually been tracking this myself now for a couple of months. It might have something to do with the new software upgrade and the addition of the bar codes and the scanning system. to me the real interesting part is to see just how many coins get knocked down in the V2 stage (too much time on my hands?). It also parallels quite nicely with how long it takes to complete the verification process. if it's in that stage more than about 3 days, check the pop report online and watch the coins that stand out in your submission be adjusted. Maybe it's just as simple as Customer Service says " You know, you're not the only person who submits coins", in which I would respond "right, but these ones I am. Please check into it". Nada!

BNE

I have noticed the following rare proof Jeffersons appear and quickly disappear: a 1955 PR69 (is/was a Pop 1 coin, which evidently had a twin for a few days about three months ago) and a 4th 1942P in PR68 existed for a few short days about three weeks ago.

This phenomenon either only exists at the top of the pops, or no one notices at lower levels (either because we're not fixated on them, or the changing pops can be more easily chalked up to cross-overs, upgrades, etc.).

Odd, but certainly no one would ever game the system.

littlewicher

Phantoms Can Grade Scary

keets

both ideas seem logical, new computer system and midway process grading changes.
i would wonder why a pop entry would be made before a coin is completely through the grading procedure. for that reason it seems the new barcodes/program would make more sense.
i wonder why PCGS would want to be so hush-hush about it, though.