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The drive towards a cash-less economy and society.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
Have you ever needed to complete a transaction which required cash and there was difficulty in getting YOUR MONEY out of the account in your bank?? It seems like the type of problem that has been getting worse during the past decade. A cash-less economy seems to be inevitable with money used in small daily transaction, convenient store stuff. As in most Government moves it will probably be a disaster for many, especially the lower rungs of society.
It will also adversely affect businesses like Coin Shops and Coin Dealers who do much/most of their business in cash(at least as much as they can). Have you felt the effect yet?? Made changes in anticipation??
Al H.
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with online banking, Apple Pay, and peer-to-peer products like Venmo and Chase Pay, I feel like things are better not worse. It has never been easier to get access to money when you need it.
YEP !
Chase bank has become a real problem getting over $1500 or so in cash. They want something with a SSN on it, before they'll give it to you. Also, they only use ATM's behind the teller windows now inside of the branch. The teller will retrieve the cash from the machine, and hand it to you without even counting it. When I asked about this, I was told the machine doesn't make mistakes. They really didn't like it while I stood there and counted it anyhow.
We will never see it in our lifetime. Neither will our kids or grandkids.
Dimeman, is that prediction equal to the one last Autumn when the Indians were up 3-1 on the Cubs?? heck, I can't even deposit cash today without furnishing an ID. we seem to be well on our way with a plan.
Change banks
I know it's getting strange. People pay with plastic. Then I run to the ATM to use plastic to withdraw cash because they don't trust my checks.
This! No need to stick with name brand banks. My bank says that if I want $250K in cash that they will get it for me.
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Declare it like you're supposed to. Best to provide documentation for how/where that you got it.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
True, but the OP was referring to green money cash and not electronic access which leaves tracks [sometimes a good thing and sometimes not] and if some of the dweebs in Government had their way cash would be a thing of the past.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Thank the Patroit Act and AML laws for that. The banks are just following federal regulations.
I don't see how we will ever reach a 100% cashless society. It would adversely affect the poor (many people don't even have checking accounts still!) So I'm sure it would be considered unconstitutional in some way.
Hell, many registered coin/bullion/jewelry dealers have to have AML "programs" in place once you reach an annual sales threshold which I think is $50,000 if I remember correctly.
Too bad HSBC didn't catch the cartels washing billions through their company...
As with voting, having to show positive I'D ( to help prevent fraud) in not the same as preventing access altogether.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
10K isn't much money any longer thanks to many years of deficit spending. You can easily spend it all buying a few items of furniture but back in 1960 you could buy two cars with a 1000 dollar bill and get change back.
It's not a war on drugs; it's a war on cash and money itself. Some small town police departments in the south will simply stop motorists and take all of their cash. Good luck getting it back. The government can't control things if it doesn't know where all the money is. They can't take money they can't see.
Your concerns shouldnt be with the tangible currency in accounts that can be redeemed for the backless coupons we handle, but rather with the inevitable implementation of a Credit Currency construct being introduced as a global currency.
The concern should lie in the test markets of Crypto Currencies. BitCoins etc.
Sure Visa was an excellent start in testing a credit type market, but it still has constraints as far as complete control of a single global dominant currency goes.
The BitCoins creator "Satoshi" is still a faceless individual laying in the shadows, & call me a conspiracy theorist but I do believe BitCoins were created to test a marketable, traceable, completely fictional credit type currency & to review its appeal to the public. Multiple Crypto Currencies have emerged since the dawn of BitCoin. Etherium, Litecoin, Monero, Ripple
Dogecoin, All of these by no means are untraceable as far as where they are at any moment and where they came from or go to. The only thing you are unable to connect, is if the user is cautious, would be a name to whos BitCoin Wallet currently houses that BitCoin, however there are many ways of figuring this out with a skilled nerd.
We are being pushed into the global economy & a singular credit currency system.
Call me crazy but I know I will see it implemented in my time.
all around collector of many fine things
shakedown street
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Speaking of crazy conspiracies here is the man in that video who owned the Semi Truck.... https://www.rferl.org/a/death-border-azerbaijan-armenia/26525206.html
WTF?
all around collector of many fine things
That's why you use a cold wallet.
The bitcoins are still traced in and out, every bitcoin has to be verified thru the network before each transfer, which is why you are unable to just create new bitcoin, putting your bitcoins in an inaccessible wallet makes it NON accessible to those looking to steal your bitcoins, in order to move them out of that "cold wallet" or in they still have to be 100% verified thru the network to determine legitimacy and it tracks the bitcoin.
all around collector of many fine things
That's not so bad.
We can always trust a network.
Bitcoin? Wut? My head hurts already. I know nothing of bitcoin, but I don't think I want it "tracked".
I like the old way. Cash.
__Board a plane with 10K or more in FRN's.
Done it several times....not an issue if not leaving the good old USA.
Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
Anyone been watching the Indian economy lately?
Huge segments of their economy rely on cash.
Having a middle class of 100M leaves another billion who're not.
A country where jewelry and cash under the bed are the two assets available as a store of wealth for that billion has been rocked over the past year.
Translated into American standard of living amounts, they've called in all the hundreds but aren't printing $20's.
JPMorganites on this forum will smile; Gold IS money.
I believe their import duty on auric is about 13%.
Sweden's going cashless in a big way. Is their population larger or smaller than Brooklyn's?
TheIndian Gov't also made their 500 and 1,000 rupee notes obsolete in the last few months over night:
https://amp.businessinsider.com/india-ending-500-and-1000-rupee-bills-to-fight-corruption-2016-11
After 40 years in this business, I can't agree with this statement at all. Especially the last 20 years. I've dealt with many dealers that ONLY wanted checks. Perhaps that's just the shop where you work.
Funny ! I went to take $6500 out of the bank they said they did not have it if I need that much I would have to order it 15 days in advance. Can you Imagine what will happen when a lot of people want their money? They will do the same here as they are doing overseas.
Please tell us the bank. (Or do you need $250K in your account first?)
Ed. S.
(EJS)
Thats the problem they could get it for you they don't have it then if you did that you probably would be called a terrorist so they could take it back. One day instead of cash you will have bonus bucks, so when you check your account it will say you have just received $100 American bonus bucks congratulations plus a 25 percent transaction fee.
I believe the gov't already operates in a cashless society. Whatever they deem a moneys use for, they type in the amount on a keyboard and it is instantly there. There is no physical transfer of a bundle of greenbacks. Cash existence exists for use by the huddled masses. If one thinks about it, cash is a form of an accounting tool. When cash is deposited in a bank account a ledger entry is created/recorded.
CHASE is horrendous. You can no longer give them cash even with a bank account to convert it to a teller's check. Your have to deposit the cash into your account and they hold it for 6 days ( note: their made up rule) before you can transfer funds to a teller check.
Furthermore, you cannot deposit even 4 cents cash into some one else's account!!!!
You MUST deposit 4 cents into your own Chase account FIRST and then wait 6 days before you are permitted to transfer such 4 cents into the other person''s Chase account!!!!
I only use CHASE to grab their $500 bonus offer for new accounts and then close the accounts after 9 months and then do it again a year later.
Despite their horrible service , they keep getting bigger and bigger. I cannot stand them.
Just to aggravate the tellers at Chase I request $200 in single dollar bills, knowing they cannot get singles from their ATM machine. I make sure I count out the cash carefully and slowly.
The only way to implement it would be to make having over $500 in cash illegal.
I mess around with crypto currency (BTC,LTC) and showed my father how easy it was with a downloaded bitcoin wallet. We transferred $5 with a scan of a qr code and very low fees. He sent it back to my phone it took all of a minute and cost close to nothing. He turned to me and said" This is the future" He is 70 and have never believed in crypto before. It is dangerous and volatile (Right Now), but if you have your money stored on a hard drive and transfer to a phone wallet you should have no problems! Also, kind of fun!
The federal government has the duty to provide and make coinage. A so-called cashless society in the US is unconstitutional . Our founding fathers did not ever intend or contemplate that money, and the role of the federal government in making it would ever be obsolete. And it never will be unless we value all the crap we are fed about the convenience of debit and credit cards associated with a cashless society. Giving money center banks and the banking sector in general the ability to exercise greater control than they now have over our money, our access to it as well as all financial transactions should be cause for great concern by all Americans.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Coinkat, that is where cryto comes in. It is an $80 Billion dollar market now and no one holds the keys to the kingdom. Blockchain is a very interesting and complex up and coming technology, which in the future all land deals will be coded on this so we will almost be able to go to a completely paperless society. I know it is hard for us to grasp, but we are on the cusp of some revolutionary things.
https://blockgeeks.com/guides/what-is-blockchain-technology/
This is an article that explains the nuts and bolts! Very exciting (But also scary) times!
maybe the Constitution can't be amended, but the Banks can be regulated. that's the whole point here that some are missing. if you can still find a Bank that allows you to move around YOUR MONEY as you wish, fine, go put your money there and I wish you the best.
just don't be too surprised one day when you wake up and things have changed.
two facets of our Society that are changing routinely, moving from large and diverse to large and simplified, are the Health Care System and the Banking System. choices are not what they used to be. there is currently a resistance to re-configuring our circulating coinage system and eliminating denominations which aren't very useful or economical to produce. the day will come, probably sooner than later, when that changes.
I assume that this is a wisearse response. Of course you'd need to have it in your account. But with a few days' notice, they'd get it for you in cash if that was your desire.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Unless you did something to indicate to them that you were a terrorist, they'd likely have issued a SAR long ago. If you won a million $$ in the lottery, there should be NO QUESTION about the legitimacy of the funds. If anyone asks why you want it, IMO "because I can" would be a valid answer.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
another thing on the horizon, negative equity..................................
There's a guy recycling aluminum cans every single day. He exchanges that for money. He now has a million dollars in the bank. We don't need cash. Labor feeds that old bum.
The only time I had trouble getting money out of an account in my bank was when I moved to Florida and tried to move my IRA. I got stuck with a bad bank in Massachusetts when the big Boston area banks got consolidated, and the Federal Government dictated that some accounts had to farmed out to It. That bank made it as hard to possible to for us to move those accounts. I also heard horror stories about that bank from coin dealers who had business accounts there. They couldn't wait to close their accounts. Back then That bank treated its customers like serfs. I don't know what it's like now.
Beyond that I've never had a problem with bank cashing my check, although I have to confess that I rarely cash one for more than $1,000 or so. I am very big on writing checks and not carrying and paying cash.
You can hope, but don't "bank on it." The cashless society could very well be also the controlled society.
But, their stated "intent" after the old notes were made obsolete....was to replace them with new 500/2000 Rupee notes. Don't know if they started doing that or not. The crack down was to get rid of illegally laundered money.
All of this talk makes me think of Chicken Little....."The sky is falling!!!".
One of my banks won't change a 100 into 5 20's without making a deposit and withdrawal simultaneously.
The other takes the 100 and hands back 4 20's..... wait, no...... 5 20's.
Guess which bank I change bills at.
Balancing a checkbook with "mystery" entries is just confusing and silly.
I think this just makes the argument that bank teller will be replaced by automated robots soon enough. I think in the next 10 years they will shut a lot more branches down. They are terrible. Banks have gotten terrible. Customer service is non existent in the banking industry. Maybe the tellers know this and that's why they're so grumpy?
Yeah, Chase bank is definitely the problem in this situation.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
You make a trip to a bank to break a hundred?
Gee whiz guys, what's up with looking for trouble and wasting people's time and being surprised at the results?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Ok let's here some replies on this, I am a cash man but always nervous to fly with a lot of cash from all the stories of seizures . I hate how you have to feel like a criminal for wanting to carry cash, the most I have taken on a plan was $30,000 but my wife was with me so technically $15000 each which is over the allowed amount which is funny because the value of coins with us was a lot more then that. If someone wanted to travel with $150,000 in cash would you have to carry documentation that the money is yours in this free country? Also well I have not traveled with coins for years why can you have $150,000 in coins and that is ok?
Imagine the business opportunity for dipping into 1.5% of the entire economy of the US! Cash will go when Paypal pressures the politicians into thinking that cash is evil.