Economist article abiout Coin Investing.

giantsfan20

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21722234-once-shady-market-aspires-respectability-numismaticsacquiring-old

Brief article covering coin grading,tesubmits but covered all the main points.

yosclimber

Reddit thread on this (I agree, the 195% return over 10 years result looks wrong).
https://reddit.com/r/coins/comments/6c2vt5/returns_on_rare_coins_over_ten_years_to_the_end/

RogerB

"Knight Frank" is primarily a large real estate consultant and broker. Like many previous articles on "big returns in rare coins" the data source is obscure and inexperienced. Anyone posting here can easily find returns of 200% to 1,000% in coins, just by picking only the winners....from the past. The information is useless for the future.

The Economist usually has better judgement than shown in the article, but maybe it's really a "planted series" - like the nefarious "infomercial."

bestday

@RogerB said:
"Knight Frank" is primarily a large real estate consultant and broker. Like many previous articles on "big returns in rare coins" the data source is obscure and inexperienced. Anyone posting here can easily find returns of 200% to 1,000% in coins, just by picking only the winners....from the past. The information is useless for the future.

The Economist usually has better judgement than shown in the article, but maybe it's really a "planted series" - like the nefarious "infomercial."

Economist a British liberal ,Anti Trump ,Anti Brexit ,Globalist mag .. got to take their writing with a grain of salt

tradedollarnut

@bestday said:

@RogerB said:
"Knight Frank" is primarily a large real estate consultant and broker. Like many previous articles on "big returns in rare coins" the data source is obscure and inexperienced. Anyone posting here can easily find returns of 200% to 1,000% in coins, just by picking only the winners....from the past. The information is useless for the future.

The Economist usually has better judgement than shown in the article, but maybe it's really a "planted series" - like the nefarious "infomercial."

Economist a British liberal ,Anti Trump ,Anti Brexit ,Globalist mag .. got to take their writing with a grain of salt

As opposed to any conservative magazine which you can believe anything it says, eh?

Walkerfan

I like that magazine. Thanks for posting this article. I must have missed it.

MrEureka

The Economist is the best in the business, but this particular article is just about worthless.

Insider2

@bestday said: "Economist a British liberal ,Anti Trump ,Anti Brexit,Globalist mag .. got to take their writing with a grain of salt.

@tradedollarnut replied: "As opposed to any conservative magazine which you can believe anything it says, eh? "

May I call you Bruce? I expect a lot from you - numismatic and otherwise. I should think a person could not purchase the coins you do without having a great intellect to reach that position in life..

The post was about the Economist. The poster said nothing about any other news source Liberal or Conservative. I personally don't believe much of what I read or hear and TV news is among the worst.

Now, at issue here is the Economist. Is what the poster said true or false? I should like your opinion.

tradedollarnut

I take ANY article about coins in any non numismatic magazine with a grain of salt. Throwing in the crap about anti Trump so you can't trust them is superfluous and just dumb

MrEureka

@bestday said:

Economist a British liberal ,Anti Trump ,Anti Brexit ,Globalist mag .. got to take their writing with a grain of salt

It would be more accurate to say that The Economist is written from a pragmatic "classic liberal" perspective. That means strong support for the free market, individual freedom and the rule of law.

This has been true since the paper was first issued in 1843. But it certainly makes sense that, today, they would tend to oppose Trump's authoritarian and protectionist tendencies.

bestday

@MrEureka said:

@bestday said:

Economist a British liberal ,Anti Trump ,Anti Brexit ,Globalist mag .. got to take their writing with a grain of salt

It would be more accurate to say that The Economist is written from a pragmatic "classic liberal" perspective. That means strong support for the free market, individual freedom and the rule of law.

This has been true since the paper was first issued in 1843. But it certainly makes sense that, today, they would tend to oppose Trump's authoritarian and protectionist tendencies.

LOL sorry . I have been a reader for over 20 years ...good info ....terrible liberal slanted ,nothing classic content written . If you are paying more than $ 50 a year ,you are being taken

MrEureka

@bestday said:

@MrEureka said:

@bestday said:

Economist a British liberal ,Anti Trump ,Anti Brexit ,Globalist mag .. got to take their writing with a grain of salt

It would be more accurate to say that The Economist is written from a pragmatic "classic liberal" perspective. That means strong support for the free market, individual freedom and the rule of law.

This has been true since the paper was first issued in 1843. But it certainly makes sense that, today, they would tend to oppose Trump's authoritarian and protectionist tendencies.

LOL sorry . I have been a reader for over 20 years ...good info ....terrible liberal slanted ,nothing classic content written . If you are paying more than $ 50 a year ,you are being taken

I've been a subscriber for at least 30 years. Perhaps you have missed their frequent references to and explanations of the phrase "Classic Liberalism"? Anyway, this definition of "Classic Liberalism" should get us back on the same page:

https://mises.org/library/what-classical-liberalism

tradedollarnut

Reality....

bestday

After WW2 ..Britain turned towards socialism , owning most of UK's industry .... Economist was/now a SJW

MrEureka

@bestday said:
Economist was/now a SJW

SJW? I had to look that up. Social Justice Warrior? Please explain.

Desert Moon

@bestday said:

@MrEureka said:

@bestday said:

Economist a British liberal ,Anti Trump ,Anti Brexit ,Globalist mag .. got to take their writing with a grain of salt

It would be more accurate to say that The Economist is written from a pragmatic "classic liberal" perspective. That means strong support for the free market, individual freedom and the rule of law.

This has been true since the paper was first issued in 1843. But it certainly makes sense that, today, they would tend to oppose Trump's authoritarian and protectionist tendencies.

LOL sorry . I have been a reader for over 20 years ...good info ....terrible liberal slanted ,nothing classic content written . If you are paying more than $ 50 a year ,you are being taken

You sound as if you are 'anti-liberal' and don't like paying more than '$50 a year' to read it, well then, why are you?

coinkat

Articles such as this really are counter productive and just not establish anything useful. Whether this was a featured story in The Economist or The Wall Street Journal, there would be no difference.

neildrobertson

I'll cut and paste my response from the Reddit thread:

"This kind of stuff gets posted all of the time, and I have yet to see any actual evidence that these gains are true. Tthe PCGS indices are all down over the last 10 years. (http://www.pcgs.com/prices/graph.aspx?range=10 years&filename=keys) Their key date and rarities index is decisively down. The coin market as a whole is decisively down. I am guessing that this Knight Frank guy that made the index only looked at coins in the 6 figure range and higher, which is not really representative of the whole, or even what most people would consider rare coins.
When you factor in inflation, coins overall have been trending down since ~1990. There have been short periods of gains like the silver and gold increases around the 2009 recession, but the overall trends are still downward.
I've personally seen prices decline over the last 2 years and have been getting some relatively good deals. As coin collectors we need to look at the data and not lie to ourselves about this stuff. People will often accept these stories at face value because they want to believe it."

I put the key part in bold. There's not much evidence of anything in the article.

dpoole

I thought this was a timely, accurate piece about a) the sustained appeal of coins as collectibles, and b) the salvific but also impactful changes wrought by the grading services. Some of those observations ("Already, a new type of 'grader of graders' has emerged, hoping to instill some discipline by rating the consistency of the two primary graders. Next: graders of graders of graders?") in short-hand form mirror multi-posted threads here.

Yes, quibble if you will about the stats of coin values vis a vis stamps, antiques, art and other collectible "assets" cited in the article, but for the space allotted, it thought the article was informative and useful to the uninitiated public.

What this has to do with the political orientation of The Economist escapes me.

bestday

@spacehayduke said:

@bestday said:

@MrEureka said:

@bestday said:

Economist a British liberal ,Anti Trump ,Anti Brexit ,Globalist mag .. got to take their writing with a grain of salt

It would be more accurate to say that The Economist is written from a pragmatic "classic liberal" perspective. That means strong support for the free market, individual freedom and the rule of law.

This has been true since the paper was first issued in 1843. But it certainly makes sense that, today, they would tend to oppose Trump's authoritarian and protectionist tendencies.

LOL sorry . I have been a reader for over 20 years ...good info ....terrible liberal slanted ,nothing classic content written . If you are paying more than $ 50 a year ,you are being taken

You sound as if you are 'anti-liberal' and don't like paying more than '$50 a year' to read it, well then, why are you?

neither anti liberal.. sorry again ... never mentioned anything .. however Economist openly endorsed Clinton with their reporting the classic liberal... whatever ...to point they weren't believable.. certainly the sky has not fallen yet as the economist predicted would happen ... Just look at the 15-20 % gains in stock market since November.. More money for coins .. I don't pay more 50 bucks for the economist ..LOL

MrEureka

.

tradedollarnut

My best friend is the nicest guy. He voted for a certain party. His friend was getting married and he made the comment that he wouldn't get a Tom Ford tux because he isn't conservative. Wtf is wrong with you people?

There, Mr Eureka - I said what you wanted to say.

MrEureka

@tradedollarnut said:

There, Mr Eureka - I said what you wanted to say.

LOL!

Actually, I was going to dispute the estimate that 85% of the coin market is in the USA. My best guess is that it's more like 50%. I was also going to dispute the estimate of the size of the market, which I think must be higher. But I got distracted by more pressing matters, i.e., the next episode of "Better Call Saul".

ricko

Interesting how often a discussion comes down to ideologies lately.....Cheers, RickO

SullivanNumismatics

Pretty content-less article, but it's good to see an article on numismatics in a major magazine.

topstuf

What did they say to buy now?
I got a few eBay bucks.

ColonelJessup

@Insider2 said:

@bestday said: "Economist a British liberal ,Anti Trump ,Anti Brexit,Globalist mag .. got to take their writing with a grain of salt.

@tradedollarnut replied: "As opposed to any conservative magazine which you can believe anything it says, eh? "

May I call you Bruce? I expect a lot from you - numismatic and otherwise. I should think a person could not purchase the coins you do without having a great intellect to reach that position in life..

The post was about the Economist. The poster said nothing about any other news source Liberal or Conservative. I personally don't believe much of what I read or hear and TV news is among the worst.

Now, at issue here is the Economist. Is what the poster said true or false? I should like your opinion.

True or false? Really?
Truths such as those you wish could be spoken are NEVER binary.
Either/Or? Both/And? Sometimes always and sometimes never?

Reference Plato or Socrates or Alex Jones or any of the other great thinkers. One of them postulated that a sign of an educated mind is the ability to consider an idea without accepting it. Please comment on that topic from the viewpoints of at least two of the three thinkers above. Scored upon the application of nuance as a measure of intellect.

I can call him Bruce and he can call me Rick. But neither of us has condescended to the other in forming that unspoken agreement. Clearly your opinion of MrEureka is sullied by his profligate expenditures on spurious information, but he paid for his subscription out of his profits on Warren Miller's Bust Dollar set. Perhaps his body of work would be more acceptable to you if you were to lower your expectations. Many knowledgeable, though possibly misled, find his work adequate.

My dear dear boy. Were we but to know you better we might expect a great deal more from you also.
Bagehot or Bag 'o hot air?

tradedollarnut

Damn, we missed you...

jedm

"Better Call Saul" There's a neat con with the Kennedy half dollar that faces the "wrong" way. Keeping it coin related.