FellintoOblivion put it well-- it's a nice portrait of liberty (oversized stars aside) but it doesn't tell a story. What's the solution? Harriet Tubman would have been a good choice but she wouldn't have made for as an attractive coin. A nod to the slavery past could be tricky and would have to include a looking forward motif as well.
"I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
From your post Oblivion I sense you are uncomfortable with "obviously black" and are attempting to mask your distaste in the ethnicity of the coin.
Nothing new or startling to me in your analysis.
@Zoins said:
How well do modern Mint medals do on the secondary market?
Is there a premium for 70s or First Strikes? Is First Strike offered for medals?
The 2016 medal has significant added premium which is totally due to it being a 2 minute sellout....if this present issue stays at no mintage limit then the premium will be minimal or even negative after a while.
@MilesWaits said:
From your post Oblivion I sense you are uncomfortable with "obviously black" and are attempting to mask your distaste in the ethnicity of the coin.
Nothing new or startling to me in your analysis.
I'm not uncomfortable with "obviously black" at all.
I'm slightly uncomfortable with the fact that the Mint relied on reinforcing physical stereotypes in their attempt to illustrate one of the biggest strengths of our country, that we strive for liberty to include and be representative of all people (even if we don't always succeed).
The more I think about it the more the design comes off as lazy and uninspired. I'm not uncomfortable with the race of the person on the coin, I'm disappointed they're not being represented with a better design.
What I do find distasteful is your suggestion (and what it entails) that I don't like the coin because there is a black person on it.
Save the stars which one can get used to, it is a beautiful design in hand! As far as diversity, that was exactly the point of the coin and medal design choice. The coin and medal of last year IMO represented more of a blend and Ms. Liberty's racial makeup not entirely clear, perhaps an average of everybody in the country put together.
Not sure where the misplaced Trump bit came from? Probably best to ignore, let her have her own posting.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
@BigA said:
Mintage limits will be the deciding factor
And the HHL. And the price.
In practice, does a HHL limit purchase for everyone, or just collectors?
Collectors are the biggest victims of HHL. There are ways to scam the system which we know are used. The mint is lax in discouraging these workarounds. Cheaters gonna cheat.
@BigA said:
Mintage limits will be the deciding factor
And the HHL. And the price.
In practice, does a HHL limit purchase for everyone, or just collectors?
Collectors are the biggest victims of HHL. There are ways to scam the system which we know are used. The mint is lax in discouraging these workarounds. Cheaters gonna cheat.
@BigA said:
Mintage limits will be the deciding factor
And the HHL. And the price.
In practice, does a HHL limit purchase for everyone, or just collectors?
Collectors are the biggest victims of HHL. There are ways to scam the system which we know are used. The mint is lax in discouraging these workarounds. Cheaters gonna cheat.
Not sure how the mint would stop it. All the buyers, even the proxy-buyers are still individuals, buying withing the guidelines laid down by the mint. You could probably do the same should you want to pay the bounty...
I admit I've even used a proxy a couple of times to buy over the HHL. (Read prez C&C's, aftet they reduced the HHL's from 5 to 2.)
From their press release (not on web site or in the Federal Register yet):
The American Liberty 225th Anniversary Silver Medal is priced at $59.95. Orders will be accepted at the Mint’s online catalog and at 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). Hearing- and speech-impaired customers with TTY equipment may order at 1-888-321-MINT. Visit us online to learn more about our shipping options.
I thought there was a reason for the delay in announcement of prices. Only a 70% increase in price over last year.
$60 might kick me out of this. More than a proof Eagle? Ugh...
Low mintage here we come! With the $60 price tag combined with no mintage limit, I don't see this medal being very popular. High prices can be ok if paired with low mintages. Unlimited mintages can be ok of paired with lower (more reasonable) prices.
The Mint might have had a good idea with making this one unlimited so that everyone who wants one can get one. However, they have botched the pricing. $35-$40 would have been the sweet spot.
If this were being sold by the Franklin Mint or some such as opposed to the US Mint I feel like the reaction to the price would be quite a bit more hostile, $60 is inane.
Edit: $60 is apparently the going rate for a 2016 non-proof ASE at the Franklin Mint
If this is in fact the case, I stand corrected,
same info posted with last years Medal, I dropped the ball thinking I had all the time I needed.
I have a feeling it will change at the last minute.
~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~ POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
59.95 is too much for me... I will watch and see what it does on the secondary market...
While on the subject of black Americans on US Coins how is it that MLK has not been represented in the commemorative series... 70 + coins since they started them and many not as deserving as Dr. King.
@UnclePennyBags said:
59.95 is too much for me... I will watch and see what it does on the secondary market...
While on the subject of black Americans on US Coins how is it that MLK has not been represented in the commemorative series... 70 + coins since they started them and many not as deserving as Dr. King.
Maybe his estate hasn't given them permission to use his likeness.
We all know that the TPG's have to put some 69's out, they all can't grade 70 so I'll wait until there's plenty on the market and they will sell for less than mint price like so many others before this, of course the Flipper's will include the package just to recoup some of the money.
Who wants to bet HSN Prices will start at $399.00 for an ANACS First Day of Issue limited to 2,017?
Call me crazy but I watch that show just to see how stupid he gets trying to sell so much junk and how many lies he can tell in an hour.
On BS&T Now: Nothing. Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up! Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
The 2016 Liberty Medals were struck on the same planchets used for the ASE's so I'm sure that's the case again this year. As mentioned in previous post I'll be in for this one, and any others this year regardless of price. Besides; this one's a bit special to me- just found out this week per 23andme DNA kit I got for mom on mothers day that my Great, Great, Great Grandmother Drewsilla wasn't Cherokee!
if they doing a 4 coin set, it will probably be $249.00. Not sure I want to buy just yet. I would probably just be interested in the reverse proof anyway.
@pf70collector said:
if they doing a 4 coin set, it will probably be $249.00. Not sure I want to buy just yet. I would probably just be interested in the reverse proof anyway.
Yeah, I figured around $199.95. It might still come in at that price, since the single is $60.
Mint still hasn't posted the price for the single to the Federal Register yet. I wonder how long they really wanted to keep the price secret...
I'll bet a lot of this price is in the fancy case. They are nice but I would like the choice to forgo the elaborate packaging and get a small box after the ASE.
Well, they finally made it official the day before the medal goes on sale.
$59.95, no product or household limits.
I think I've decided I'll wait a couple of months and see what sales looks like. Should they sell less than say, 40-50K, I'll buy one from the mint. Otherwise, I'll wait on the secondary market for a lower price, should I buy one at all. I just have a problem with the Mint asking 3.5X spot for a silver non-coin, and a 70% increase over last year's medals. (Both of which I have.)
@TurboSnail said:
No limit, clearly a path to the variety set. Why not wait until the end of the year to decide unless someone believes silver spot will be sky high.
You're right. I should at least wait until the four-medal set comes out to the secondary market. (Still no word on a release date on the 4-medal set.)
The four coin set maybe the only way to get the other three coins including the reverse proof, if they don't sell them individually, so probably will wait.
I am in no rush to buy the first one. Maybe no need to have a duplicate of the first coin if I buy the set. Also still on the fence even about the 4 coin set.
Might put my funds instead into the Boys Town gold MS which is languishing at 1746.
Comments
FellintoOblivion put it well-- it's a nice portrait of liberty (oversized stars aside) but it doesn't tell a story. What's the solution? Harriet Tubman would have been a good choice but she wouldn't have made for as an attractive coin. A nod to the slavery past could be tricky and would have to include a looking forward motif as well.
I don't like the stars.
From your post Oblivion I sense you are uncomfortable with "obviously black" and are attempting to mask your distaste in the ethnicity of the coin.
Nothing new or startling to me in your analysis.
How well do modern Mint medals do on the secondary market?
Is there a premium for 70s or First Strikes? Is First Strike offered for medals?
Yes, there's a premium for 70 vs 69. Sometimes very significant.
Yes, First Strike is offered for medals. But I wouldn't pay extra for FS -- especially for low-mintage medals that sell-out quickly.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
The 2016 medal has significant added premium which is totally due to it being a 2 minute sellout....if this present issue stays at no mintage limit then the premium will be minimal or even negative after a while.
I'm not uncomfortable with "obviously black" at all.
I'm slightly uncomfortable with the fact that the Mint relied on reinforcing physical stereotypes in their attempt to illustrate one of the biggest strengths of our country, that we strive for liberty to include and be representative of all people (even if we don't always succeed).
The more I think about it the more the design comes off as lazy and uninspired. I'm not uncomfortable with the race of the person on the coin, I'm disappointed they're not being represented with a better design.
What I do find distasteful is your suggestion (and what it entails) that I don't like the coin because there is a black person on it.
edit: effort saved
Not into medals.
Coins for me.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Save the stars which one can get used to, it is a beautiful design in hand! As far as diversity, that was exactly the point of the coin and medal design choice. The coin and medal of last year IMO represented more of a blend and Ms. Liberty's racial makeup not entirely clear, perhaps an average of everybody in the country put together.
Not sure where the misplaced Trump bit came from? Probably best to ignore, let her have her own posting.
Well, just Love coins, period.
In practice, does a HHL limit purchase for everyone, or just collectors?
Collectors are the biggest victims of HHL. There are ways to scam the system which we know are used. The mint is lax in discouraging these workarounds. Cheaters gonna cheat.
What is HHL?
HHL = House Hold Limit
Not sure how the mint would stop it. All the buyers, even the proxy-buyers are still individuals, buying withing the guidelines laid down by the mint. You could probably do the same should you want to pay the bounty...
I admit I've even used a proxy a couple of times to buy over the HHL. (Read prez C&C's, aftet they reduced the HHL's from 5 to 2.)
Seven days and counting,
Wish the USM would update info...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Price: $59.95
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
Yep, cue Price is Right fail music (again)....
From their press release (not on web site or in the Federal Register yet):
I thought there was a reason for the delay in announcement of prices. Only a 70% increase in price over last year.
$60 might kick me out of this. More than a proof Eagle? Ugh...
Low mintage here we come! With the $60 price tag combined with no mintage limit, I don't see this medal being very popular. High prices can be ok if paired with low mintages. Unlimited mintages can be ok of paired with lower (more reasonable) prices.
The Mint might have had a good idea with making this one unlimited so that everyone who wants one can get one. However, they have botched the pricing. $35-$40 would have been the sweet spot.
Thanks to this $59.95 , I decided to stay as an ASE hoarder .
For $60, i could buy 3 troy ounces of silver. I'll pass because I cannot get by the fugly huge stars.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
If this were being sold by the Franklin Mint or some such as opposed to the US Mint I feel like the reaction to the price would be quite a bit more hostile, $60 is inane.
Edit: $60 is apparently the going rate for a 2016 non-proof ASE at the Franklin Mint
Thanks for info, I'm still in.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Chucky cheese has better looking stars. lol
How many of those can you get for $60?
Kinda like the medal but no way I'm paying that price to own it. Will wait for the secondary market to adjust these to FMV
$64.90 W/shipping, I'm still in...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
https://catalog.usmint.gov/225th-anniversary-american-liberty-silver-medal-17XB.html?cgid=silver-medals#_ga=2.96408152.599402746.1496876287-1260982744.1473351818&start=1
just got email details:
No Limits on Mintage, Product, or Household Order
I'm confident this will change very soon.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Based on what?
I do believe, what you see is what you got...
If this is in fact the case, I stand corrected,
same info posted with last years Medal, I dropped the ball thinking I had all the time I needed.
I have a feeling it will change at the last minute.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
That's $10 over my high estimate of an absurd $49.95. All I can do is shake my head
PASS X 1000
MS69'S will be $36 or so in a year,,,, maybe sooner.
59.95 is too much for me... I will watch and see what it does on the secondary market...
While on the subject of black Americans on US Coins how is it that MLK has not been represented in the commemorative series... 70 + coins since they started them and many not as deserving as Dr. King.
Successful trades.... MichaelDixon,
Maybe his estate hasn't given them permission to use his likeness.
I was out when they announced no limits on it. That price is just stupid.
We all know that the TPG's have to put some 69's out, they all can't grade 70 so I'll wait until there's plenty on the market and they will sell for less than mint price like so many others before this, of course the Flipper's will include the package just to recoup some of the money.
Who wants to bet HSN Prices will start at $399.00 for an ANACS First Day of Issue limited to 2,017?
Call me crazy but I watch that show just to see how stupid he gets trying to sell so much junk and how many lies he can tell in an hour.
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
The 2016 Liberty Medals were struck on the same planchets used for the ASE's so I'm sure that's the case again this year. As mentioned in previous post I'll be in for this one, and any others this year regardless of price. Besides; this one's a bit special to me- just found out this week per 23andme DNA kit I got for mom on mothers day that my Great, Great, Great Grandmother Drewsilla wasn't Cherokee!
if they doing a 4 coin set, it will probably be $249.00. Not sure I want to buy just yet. I would probably just be interested in the reverse proof anyway.
Box of 20
Wow!.....changed my mind entirely. CC bill looking pretty good now....
Price is WAY out of whack for what it is....and four more coming?
Yeah, I figured around $199.95. It might still come in at that price, since the single is $60.
Mint still hasn't posted the price for the single to the Federal Register yet. I wonder how long they really wanted to keep the price secret...
Interesting. The Federal Register has the price (officially), but the publication wasn't supposed to be published until Monday...
The document itself was dated June 5.
Pricing for the 2017 American Liberty 225th Anniversary Silver Medal
The press release wasn't pranking us, it's really going to be $59.95.
Still no product limit, nor HHL. Wheeeeeee!
I'll bet a lot of this price is in the fancy case. They are nice but I would like the choice to forgo the elaborate packaging and get a small box after the ASE.
Well, they finally made it official the day before the medal goes on sale.
$59.95, no product or household limits.
I think I've decided I'll wait a couple of months and see what sales looks like. Should they sell less than say, 40-50K, I'll buy one from the mint. Otherwise, I'll wait on the secondary market for a lower price, should I buy one at all. I just have a problem with the Mint asking 3.5X spot for a silver non-coin, and a 70% increase over last year's medals. (Both of which I have.)
Tomorrow at Noon! Have at it, folks!
No limit, clearly a path to the variety set. Why not wait until the end of the year to decide unless someone believes silver spot will be sky high.
You're right. I should at least wait until the four-medal set comes out to the secondary market. (Still no word on a release date on the 4-medal set.)
The four coin set maybe the only way to get the other three coins including the reverse proof, if they don't sell them individually, so probably will wait.
I am in no rush to buy the first one. Maybe no need to have a duplicate of the first coin if I buy the set. Also still on the fence even about the 4 coin set.
Might put my funds instead into the Boys Town gold MS which is languishing at 1746.
Box of 20
"Maybe no need to have a duplicate of the first coin if I buy the set"
I think the first one will not be a duplicate of any in the set....four coin set...S, W, D and RP
..and save the worry and just buy #1 as a pre-sale..I saw some listed at $138 BIN...on a no mintage limit, no HH limit overpriced medal