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Scam Jordan Rookie for Sale!!! Beware
JBrules
Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
Obvious fake flip being used to try and sell a PSA 10 Jordan rookie. I'm not a photoshop expert but it appears to be doctored and poorly at that. The real Jordan sold by PWCC 8/2/2016 according to VCP.
ebay.com/itm/382077487827?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Fake Jordan Flip
Real Jordan Flip
0
Comments
That bottom right corner made my eyebrows go up when I saw it yesterday. It would be far fetched to get a 9 IMO with that.
He had it as a buy now - http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Fleer-MICHAEL-JORDAN-Rookie-57-PSA-10-Gem-Mint-NEW-HOLDER-/322510020472?hash=item4b17185f78:g:71AAAOSwIQdZEO9b
That fake Jordan is definitely not a PSA 10 with that bottom right corner. It must of been submitted by Faux Sharp Corners to get that 10.
It looks to me that someone photoshopped the flip with the # from the PWCC auction. If you look closely at the flip the PSA insignia/hologram in between the barcode and number looks way off. Also the numbers looked to be photoshopped as well.
I would not say obvious.
The flip and card are different that's for sure.
Scary thing is it's a new slab/flip
Seller added new photo says it was scanner that made corner look bad.
They also said the bought it recently from a individual not Pwcc.
I believe the seller he was scammed by a very legit looking Jordan 10.
Back centering not even close.
The font is definitely wrong on the flip.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
hope someone reported this auction
I reported it and the listing is no longer active.
Curious....what category did you use? I tried to find one thst worked. I ended up chosing fraudulent listing...not sure if it was correct. Glad it is gone
I called Ebay directly. I have reported using the fraud category before with no results. Since they only give you 100 characters to explain and it is impossible to explain why it is a fraud with so few characters.
Well done ty for calling
The 1954 Mantle Dan Dee card looks suspect as well. Thoughts?
If someone could search the cert it would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1954-Dan-Dee-MICKEY-MANTLE-Baseball-Card-PSA-8-NICE-Potato-Chips-/322510019103?hash=item4b17185a1f:g:VjMAAOSwYlRZEO78
Looks it was for sale before under a different account a month ago.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1954-Dan-Dee-Mickey-Mantle-Potato-Chip-PSA-8-Near-Mint-Mint-Vary-Rare-Low-Pop-/382041603435?hash=item58f3743d6b:g:AvAAAOSwj25Y8DoU&nma=true&si=Dx%2BHaCv3PuYZUPNqL5s%2B5Nb8XLQ%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Flip looks bad just like the 86 Rice he sold (yuck)
probably another "cardregistry" incident.
"just another victim. just another victim, kid."
I wanted to come on here and let you guys know where i am at with this whole Jordan mess. I was one selling PSA 10 Jordan. Some of you had sent me messages through E-Bay so i am responding all at once. Little history. I was contacted by a guy in California about trading 2 PSA 9 Jordans for a 1932 Caramel Ruth i had listed. I told him to purchase card and he could use the 2 Jordans as payment. So he sent me what i believed to be 2 PSA 9 Jordans. They looked absolutely fine to me. I traded one to a friend actually and sold the other. After that he contacted me about couple vintage cards which i still believe to be good( i am much better with the vintage topps stuff than i am with the fleer or newer stuff) but with also a PSA 10 Jordan in the deal. The one i listed. The bottom right corner was not the card but a little square as part of holder that made corner look off. I didnt think anything about the little square as i swore i had saw other holders out there with same little square. It is actually part of the holder. Anyhow i removed card after being questioned about it. Trust me had nothing to do with E-Bay or anybodys inquiries. I still havent received anything from E-Bay if you guys turned it in. Anyhow after i removed it i went to a couple of friends and big time guys in the business and they pointed out to me the texture of the surface looks off. Much smoother than other 86 fleers and that was convincing enough for me. In total i purchased 2 10's and 2 9's that trust me will not see the light of day in anyone elses hands. I am out with the Ruth i traded around 33k. But believe there are some moral people out there and i like to include myself as one. So please with the assumptions. By the way i never sold a 86 topps jerry rice in a 10. So here is my take and trust me guys these Jordans and holders are very good fakes. Anything you guys noticed was in the scan as far as color or anything like that. Unless you hold these up to light and look at texture and maybe backs being whiter than they should they are good and holders are even better. So beware. I know this whole thing has really turned me off. I mean who the hell is getting the new holder and even the little foil PSA sticker is dead on. When you hold to light everything is perfect with that and flip.Guys name or so he says i was dealing with was Sanford Mill. I had wired him money to 3 different accounts. His,His brother, and his wife. Told me was trying to get around some taxes which wasnt any of my business but i bought it. One bank was in Aurora Colorado which is where he said he lives with wife others Chula Vista and San Diego California. I am in process of doing everything i can presently to ultimately try and recover my money but at the very least find this f***er, and keep him from doing this to someone else. Anyhow buyers beware!
Yes this guy out of CA is making 86 Jordan's in PSA 9 &10 and they are almost impossible to tell that they are home made. The fact he can do new slabes now makes me cringe. He tried to trade me for a Ruth I had listed but I remembered about others he scammed and never responded to his request after he said he would send me the Jordan's first out of "good faith". No one sends out thousands of $ worth of cards to a stranger with no $ having been paid.
Here's a thread I started about it last year
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/966967/beware-scammer
I hope everything works out for you and this
Guy needs to be stopped asap!
His ebay accounts I last heard were : Goatcollector" & "cardexpert80"
I just contacted someone else (goes by mustangboy2 on E-Bay) and saved him about 14k. This asshole called me all pissed off that i just ruined a deal for him. Calling me a liar. What a joke. Anyhow if there were some way to catch this scumbag i would love to know. I am out a ton of money and it doesnt look good for me to recover. Think he goes under several accounts. When i look back over last couple weeks i can see the red flags but ignored them all. Guess im the stupid ass.
EdsBaseballCards have you contacted Law Enforcement?
Were the other two Psa Jordan's you sold recently obtained from the same source as the card posted here?
Yes they were and i let the two buyers know. They are being returned for full refund. So i will have all 4 that i purchased in my possession. The 8.5 i have listed is good as i personally got that one graded. I just wish i had compared texture of paper to good one i have. But i just did not think. They looked good.
I remember this guy awhile back,. do the numbers register in the database ? what can be done so that this does not happen again ? how is he doing the new slabs ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
There is nothing that can be done, unless you notice what card he stole the cert number from you will never know its that good.
The new slabs is a head scratcher? You're guess is as good as mine.
Edit;
Edsbaseballcards: contact the authorities, psa and or a lawyer this guy will not stop till he get's busted. It's only gonna get worse imo.
Looks like the hobby has come full circle:
Circa 1994: "We need professional grading to make sure these are real"
to
2017: "We can't tell if its real even with a PSA slab because they can fake those too!".
I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.
Ed, I hope you contact Joe Orlando at PSA with what has happened. It likely will not help your situation but can help the hobby as a whole tremendously. It seems PSA would be well served to upgrade the holder. For what it is worth, Beckett (BGS) has not had any major breaches or major counterfeit problems with its case as far as I know. Yes, it is probably just a matter of time but people have been saying that for awhile and it hasn't happened. I love PSA and I hope they can produce a more secure case that cannot be counterfeited . Meanwhile, as a huge Jordan fan, I am happy to be collecting his Star cards which happen to be only be graded by BGS. Funny how Star basketball went from having the highest concern for counterfeit to probably the most counterfeit proof in BGS cases.
good thing i buy cards no body else wants lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
By the way, this scammer absolutely does NOT have the EBay account GOATcollector. I know that because that is my wife's EBay account and it was just opened recently. There has never been an 86 Fleer Jordan bought, sold, or traded from this account ever. In fact, I think there has been only maybe a total of 6 or 7 transactions. I guess it is possible he had this name and account closed some time ago but I can assure you it is not his EBay user ID now.
Goatcollector is who contacted me and offered to send me a psa9 mj for my Ruth last summer.
thats odd I remember telling you last year the scammers account names threw pm's. Why would you want than user I'd?
Interesting. Well my wife's account was created in Feb 2017 so it is a brand new account and created well after your messaging. It must have been used by him before. So I guess the Ebay names are reused. I guess we will have to change it now. Bad karma with the name I guess. We should have know it to be too good to be true that one would be available.
goatcollector wanted to trade me his jordan 86 fleer psa 9 too, july of last year. it looked trimmed so i told him no. didnt look like it fit in the holder properly
Yep! He offered me a 2000 contenders psa 10 Brady RC also, said he send them to me in the mail fist and I can send the Ruth after. That's when the light bulb went off I remembered this listing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1933-Goudey-Babe-Ruth-149-SGC-55-4-5-STOLEN-BEWARE-OF-SCAM-/262499007163?nma=true&hash=item3d1e28fabb:g:MZ0AAOSwUfNXScGl&si=r9Vnv14dQ36WKe%2F0k7DebNsyERw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Too bad. I really liked the name GOATcollector. Luckily only a total of three feedback on the account. Sorry for doubting your research. As you can easily tell,my wife's account was just created but will not hold the name much longer. Now I need another catchy account name associated with Jordan. Was the previous GOATcollector name all lowercase?
I just hope they catch him before he does any more damage. He seems to want Babe Ruth cards. Maybe law enforcement could set up a sting? That would be great
PSA and Feds should coordinate. This kind of thing could totally erode confidence in the hobby. I hope PSA gets ahead of the game with new case technology and a scan library of all graded images.
Good to hear about the other cards Ed. I spent way more time than Id like to admit looking over your pics of these new fakes and there are some red flags for future reference.
Of course the stock looks whiter/brighter on these new fakes. On the back there are obvious differences too, namely the "A" from Chicago is distinct between fakes and originals. The new fakes have more white, almost a triangle inside the top part of the A. The original looks a bit more fuzzy and not as defined.
I looked on ebay and there could be other fakes in psa slabs from members that likely had deals with the scammer(s). Down the rabbit hole we go!
If Ed can send Joe Orlando the contact information of the scammer and even the cards, PSA can go after him directly with the authorities and hopefully make an example for deterrence. I am sure many federal laws are broken in the process of the production and sale.
Yes pay it fwd plz
well its like mr orlando would say, if you are going to buy a 5k rolex, would u buy it from a street dealer or a reputable dealer ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
@addicted2ebay i told him id do the trade after i got his card reholdered by psa, he told me he didnt want to wait that long....i told him it would be reholdered via their express service and once it said online that all was ok id send his card out--he didnt like that too much..the end
ed,
first thing you need to do is google "cardregistry and net54" and read that thread. another similar scenario that resulted from mr. macniel, who ironically operates outta aurora, co. and is probably the real culprit behind these cards. well, the usa connection at least. the real dbag making these is down in mexico.
it will ultimately give you a detectives number who you should call.
whether trading, outright too good to be true sales or ghost-consigning, this scam plays out to the same results.
this probably provides no solace, but i know a few guys that ended up being on the hook for over $156k from these guys, so while unlucky now, at least you found out now vs later.
best of luck and keep us updated...
even though you will get a letter stating differently, joe will only talk to a financial or law enforcement official.
eta: thats if you sent the fake card to them and they deem it a fake. the card will be cracked out and returned w said letter.
Wish i would have been more knowledgeable myself about previous posts and the card in general. Been doing this for over 40 years. Never even thought bout being scammed. Will be much more aware in future obviously. Dont come on here much anymore but was prompted to after someone referred this article to me . Use to have a website back when i was doing Pete Rose master registry. Was on here quite a bit then and was very helpful. Will be on here much more if i continue with the hobby. Honestly right now feel like just want to sell everything off and move on. Will be taking whatever steps i can to make sure this doesnt happen to someone else. Believe me, not fun. I have already accepted fact i will never see my money again but whatever i can do to get this ahole out of the hobby i am committed to do. Unfortunately the more i read about scams and our hobby in particular doesnt look good for the future. As long as there is money being paid for these things there will be scammers. Anyhow just waiting for one PSA 9 and one psa 10 back from buyers. Then i will have all 4 back in my possession and will be moving forward from there. Thanks guys hopefully can move on from this and also find some sort of resolution that gives me some sort of faith in the hobby again- Ed
well you are a good man and you did the right thing, but yes authorities need to be informed. and good catch by the original post of this thread ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
http://www.ebay.com/itm/361980432071?rmvSB=true
do these corners look sharp to you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
The problem is that even with the hologram, the new PSA holders are too easy to open and/or duplicate. As a disclaimer, I only use BGS for quick turnarounds for things like low grade Jordans and things that need authentication due to being counterfeited, but of all the posts about this subject of fake PSA flips/holders being broken, I have not seen a single one regarding a BGS slab. There may be instances of it, but I would think PSA needs to rethink their holders to end this problem
well that bgs in the link I provided does not look like a 9.5 9.5 9.5 9.5 to me
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
Perhaps this is because they are harder to crack but also because it's much harder to find cards that are in BGS Slabs that would make it worth the time, effort, & risk. Not that there aren't nice expensive cards that are graded by BGS.
With the Jordan for example there are 6 BGS 10s and 273 PSA 10s. Just shear volume dictates that it it would be easier to hide amongst the PSA holders.
Kevin
2 e-bay user id that i know this guy is using patsfan90-1 and oldschool86. Beware with either of these 2 users
ty
just want to call attention to something Ed said. The apparent issue with the lower right corner on the bad Jordan is a tiny square that sometimes appears on legit PSA cases. It is always right near one of the corners, though not always the lower right corner. I've noticed it on legit PSA cases at least 5-10 times in the past because it always creates the illusion of corner wear. So I would guess the bad Jordan here is somehow created using a real case, right?
anyways ..ill rather spend on mars attacks cards> @addicted2ebay said:
that sucks, what if one of your cards was counterfeit and you didn't know
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama