1838 Gobrecht Dollar Pattern Hub Reduction
Zoins
Posts: 34,290 ✭✭✭✭✭
Just ran across this 1 dollar hub reduction of the J-80 Gobrecht eagle. While no known patterns were struck of this eagle in a dollar size, this hub reduction is dollar size. This was brought to the attention of NGC grader and ANA Summer Seminar instructor John Schuch by Alexandrea Zieman, a Summer Seminar student of Schuch's who's father owned the piece. It was acquired in 2012 as part of an estate sale of someone believed to be a 7th generation Patterson (descendent of US Mint Directors Robert and Robert M. Patterson). Every once in a while, there's a great estate sale and an amazing find!
Here are some articles on this:
- NGC Certifies 1838 Gobrecht Hub Reduction
- NGC authenticates previously unknown brass hub reduction for Gobrecht dollar design
Images courtesy of NGC:
4
Comments
Looks like the half, not the dollar
The design is used on the J-80 / J-81 half dollar patterns, but this piece is dollar size. No dollar patterns have been found with this design but it seems they thought about it. Who knows what might be out there!
Wow... really nice and what a great item to have....I have never had that kind of luck at estate sales...Cheers, RickO
These were called simply "reductions" by the Mint. They might have been retouched by the engraver and eventually become a design punch for a master die, or used for design review and/or approval, or for the engraver's intermediary use. The coiner could also use a reduction to estimate production relief and decide if additional changes were needed. Nearly everything except direct die cutting was handled by the Coining Dept., not the Engraving Dept.
A couple of interesting letters....there are many more.
"Philadelphia, August 25, 1836
Sir
I have the honor to send you herewith, an impression of the reverse intended for the new
dollar, of which the dies are now completed. If it meets your approbation, we will proceed to make the hubs immediately, and I shall hope soon to present you with a specimen of the coin itself.
Patterson"
ALSO
"September 22, 1836
Adam Eckfeldt, Esq.
Chief Coiner
Sir,
The dies for the new dollar having been sunk by Mr. Gobrecht, and the impressions
approved by the Treasury Department, I am exceedingly desirous that you shall take, without delay, the necessary measures for an early issue of dollar coins. For this object I pray you to have the hubs and working dies prepared, and the proper arrangements adopted for cutting and milling the planchets, and coining them in the large screw press – the pieces being struck in a close reeded or grooved collar.
The employment of the screw press is only to be temporary, and you are aware that it is
of great importance that the lever-press for dollars should be completed at as early a day as possible. For this purpose, the machine shop being now ready, I beg you to use every exertion to find suitable workmen, in addition to those already in the Mint, who may be employed upon the new press ‘till it is finished. These men not to be enrolled away from the regular hands, but to be engaged only for this special object, and paid from the appropriation for new machinery, etc.
Most respectfully & truly yours,
R. M. Patterson,
Director"
There were quite a few design drawings and reductions prior to approval of the final design. One set of unapproved dies were made in brass. The ANS has a splasher of an unapproved obverse design and several more exist in the Philadelphia Library Company. I think the present piece is represented by a known drawing, I'll check with JD and Saul Teichman. The design is similar to, but not the same, as that first used on the J73 pattern half dollar.
BTW Roger, the correct word in the Patterson document is "ground" (ie, smooth), not "grooved". So, the sentence portion reads "struck in a close reeded or ground collar." The J60's were struck with what is commonly called a "plain collar" that had the internal diameter lathe-cut, ground, and polished. You can see solid evidence of the manufacturing process on the edge; sadly, not so much anymore with most pieces in plastic. However, the ANS has placed several of the Korein pieces in museum holders so they can still be examined.
I owned one of these. It was well before this piece surfaced. I thought it was a reduction from the Titian Peale model which was pictured in Elvira Clain-Stefanelli's book on US Coins. I sold mine to Mr.Eureka.
That should be shipped to Daniel Carr for a few months.
Rittenhouse: Thanks for the note. Checking the original document, the word is clearly "grooved." I don't know if this alters any prior ideas.
It's always helpful to have the original manuscript available for cross checking.
[While researching Renaissance of American Coinage 1916-1921, there was a significant letter in Taxay's book. Every other appearance of the letter was identical. As I looked thorough the archives page-by-page, I came across the original manuscript. Taxay's version was identical in wording, except for one small transcription error: "January 3, 1922 letter from Morgan to de Francisci. In Taxay, this letter was incorrectly transcribed, omitting the word “will” from the last sentence. This altered the meaning of the document. The error was copied through two generations of writers."]
PS: Let me know if you want the full original letter.
Now that is COOL.
As Roger said, many more interesting letters.
This appears to be the first instance of an impression sent:
Mint of the United States Philadelphia, January 8, 1836 Sir I send you herewith these impressions taken very imperfectly in the fusible alloy, from a study die which Mr. Gobrecht has just finished. We thought it prudent to make our first trial on a brass die, in order that the difficulties and imperfections might be seen, before the permanent die of steel was made. Some points are accordingly found which require correction, and which will be altered in the steel die, on the execution of which we shall enter immediately, if the specimens now presented meet with the approbation of the President and yourself. The thin piece, you will observe, offers the most distinct impressions, but it is subject to bend, so that the general effect, as it will appear on the coin, is perhaps more accurately presented in the heavier medal. I shall be grateful for your frank opinion of this attempt. I send specimens only to the President and yourself, as I do not think it wise to offer half-done work to general criticism. Most respectfully, Your faithful Servant, R. M. Patterson DirectorI really like that design!
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
A major difficulty of any historical research, and especially numismatic, is that we don't have much information about the classes of documents that are missing. For those on the technical side, this is the meta-metadata. That is: we know what we have so far; we can search for more in the sources we have; but we don't know what all the possible sources are; thus we often don't know that we don't know because we don't know.
Wow!
Once you get inside the archives, it's sometimes like Abbot & Costello's "Who's on First."
Yup. Have a copy.