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US MINT ASE sales down 79% in April 2017 vs April 2016?????

cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 6, 2017 3:53AM in Precious Metals

Is this right? Looks like 835,000 oz sold in April 2017 vs 4,072,000 oz in April 2016.

Was there a problem with production? What going on?

Looks like year over year sales are down over 50%. What would have caused such a massive decline in sales?

Excuses are tools of the ignorant

Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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Comments

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well JP morgan was buying most of them , maybe they have enough? :#

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,127 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:

    Well JP morgan was buying most of them , maybe they have enough? :#

    No it wasnt.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • carew4mecarew4me Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭✭

    tHE mINT CAnnOT sOuRce SiIlver ...Buy...buY...BUY!


    Loves me some shiny!
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @bronco2078 said:

    Well JP morgan was buying most of them , maybe they have enough? :#

    No it wasnt.

    Well my best friend's cousin's ex-roommate told me all about it so I'm pretty confident . Seems they are buying pallets of monster boxes and melting them them into 1000 oz bars to cover their shorts on COMEX . Or uncover their longs? Maybe both , they are 10 steps ahead of all of us

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    Is this right? Looks like 835,000 oz sold in April 2017 vs 4,072,000 oz in April 2016.

    Was there a problem with production? What going on?

    Looks like year over year sales are down over 50%. What would have caused such a massive decline in sales?

    Yep, shows ~19M in '16 and ~9M in '17. No wonder Ag prices are diving! :*

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2017 6:07AM

    @carew4me said:
    tHE mINT CAnnOT sOuRce SiIlver ...Buy...buY...BUY!

    I don't see any evidence of decreased mining production.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2017 6:23AM

    One AP is selling sealed boxes of 2016s for $2.12 over with no buy price posted and 2017s for $2.20 over with a $1 over buy price. That suggests to me that DEMAND is DOWN, for what reason I don't know.
    However they have already produced more than 500,000 for 5 working days in May, so who knows.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2017 7:19AM

    The guy on TV last night said the 2016 ASE set with the proof and the satin and the edge lettering and the special box was "the most important and historic coins ever produced by the US mint" and it must be so, since he said it twice, said it twice.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That chart certainly tells a story.... should be interesting to watch....Cheers, RickO

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2017 8:58AM

    So there does appear to be some seasonality derryb.

    Downtown, Politics....hummm, interesting, perhaps. PMers, IMO, seems to be a more conservative lot, and while the party in power now might be more conservative in "moral" thought, it certainly isn't in fiscal policy. Proposals thus far intoduced seem to only increase national debt at a faster pace. And IF successful, lead to faster inflation. And if unsuccessful, then still a lot more debt. Why would demand drop so dramatically?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2017 7:55AM

    the tv shysters are so full of ummm infinite wizdum. >:)

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    So there does appear to be some seasonality derryb.

    Downtown, Politics....hummm, interesting, perhaps. PMers, IMO, seems to be a more conservative lot, and while the party in power now might be more conservative in "moral" thought, it certainly isn't in fiscal policy. Proposals thus far intoduced seem to only increase national debt at a faster pace. And IF successful, lead to faster inflation. And if unsuccessful, then still a lot more debt. Why would demand drop so dramatically?

    Speaking strictly on the current political landscape we cannot use logic and rational thought. One glance at the news and.............

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2017 5:36AM


    So even though silver prices are about the same as 2 years ago, demand has evaporated and no one has a good reason why. According to some, alll the "concerns" of 5 years ago are still intact, so why the apathy?

    Well, after a brutal 6 year bear market, and having watched other asset classes grossly outperform silver, are we finally reaching the despair state of market psychology?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With spot trending down, premiums for ASEs are also not increasing like they normally might. You can buy 2017s for $2.29 over [any quantity]. Tells me simply that nobody wants the chit.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Most buyers likely stocked up at the first of the year at @$16 (I did). As price went up demand went down (mine did). Now that we're back in the $16's, the buying should resume (mine will). Mint sales report increases will lag the retail buying due to the wholesaler APs being stocked up and not ready to order more until their inventory comes down.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,101 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    With spot trending down, premiums for ASEs are also not increasing like they normally might. You can buy 2017s for $2.29 over [any quantity]. Tells me simply that nobody wants the chit.

    I see Apmex wholesale price is close to your posted price, but the retail price is still over $3 premium and on ebay all the auctions for singles and multiples are over $20 per. Many nearly $22 per.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    With spot trending down, premiums for ASEs are also not increasing like they normally might. You can buy 2017s for $2.29 over [any quantity]. Tells me simply that nobody wants the chit.

    I see Apmex wholesale price is close to your posted price, but the retail price is still over $3 premium and on ebay all the auctions for singles and multiples are over $20 per. Many nearly $22 per.

    It helps to know where to look. $7.77 shipping IIRC

    https://sdbullion.com/2017-american-silver-eagle-coin

    theknowitalltroll;
  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,101 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At the current price if they charge $7.77 shipping on a roll, is $19.05 each when you buy 20.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bigjpst said:
    At the current price if they charge $7.77 shipping on a roll, is $19.05 each when you buy 20.

    People who sell here and ship in SFRB pay nearly that which is normally passed on to the buyer. Of course for the savvy buyer who can afford 10 rolls or a MB, it's a pretty good deal.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    With spot trending down, premiums for ASEs are also not increasing like they normally might. You can buy 2017s for $2.29 over [any quantity]. Tells me simply that nobody wants the chit.

    I see Apmex wholesale price is close to your posted price, but the retail price is still over $3 premium and on ebay all the auctions for singles and multiples are over $20 per. Many nearly $22 per.

    Yes. The "market" --on average-- assigns a bit of numismatic premium to ASEs in singles and "a few" quantities, and maybe some of that premium takes the form of the notorious "shipping and handling" expense. But you know this, yes?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The AP that I cited above selling ASE MBs for $2.12 over also has free shipping by FEDEX ground.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "MB", that's 500 at a time, right?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • ADGADG Posts: 438 ✭✭✭

    Looking at the chart for ASE sales, there is huge monthly variation. I think it is a bit difficult to conclude anything yet based on 4 months of 2017.

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ADG said:
    Looking at the chart for ASE sales, there is huge monthly variation. I think it is a bit difficult to conclude anything yet based on 4 months of 2017.

    When the May-June numbers come in we'll have a lot better idea, especially if Ag stays under $17. If it goes under $16 this spring ASE sales should jump.

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:
    "MB", that's 500 at a time, right?

    Yep. I'm still waiting for a Mini-Box of 10 rolls. Right sized for my budget. :D

  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,101 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    With spot trending down, premiums for ASEs are also not increasing like they normally might. You can buy 2017s for $2.29 over [any quantity]. Tells me simply that nobody wants the chit.

    I see Apmex wholesale price is close to your posted price, but the retail price is still over $3 premium and on ebay all the auctions for singles and multiples are over $20 per. Many nearly $22 per.

    Yes. The "market" --on average-- assigns a bit of numismatic premium to ASEs in singles and "a few" quantities, and maybe some of that premium takes the form of the notorious "shipping and handling" expense. But you know this, yes?

    Yes I'm quite aware. My response was to the anyone can buy at $2.29 over spot. This may be true if you are buying wholesale or willing to buy 100+, but the current selling price for the average person to get a roll or small quantity is still $3 or more. On eBay apmex doesn't have 5 or 10 or even rolls for sale. The other bullion dealers who are running auctions are showing competed sales between $20 and $21.50 per. That to me means that there is still a demand from individual collectors.
    somebody posted that the premiums were dropping while the spot prices drop meaning no demand, but people are still paying $20+ a piece.

  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,101 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    The AP that I cited above selling ASE MBs for $2.12 over also has free shipping by FEDEX ground.

    Apmex wholesale when I made my earlier post was $18.62 with free shipping over $100, but the retail premium is still much higher. Thier buy price BTW was almost $1 per ASE more than the seller you posted.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:
    "MB", that's 500 at a time, right?

    Yes.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    The AP that I cited above selling ASE MBs for $2.12 over also has free shipping by FEDEX ground.

    Apmex wholesale when I made my earlier post was $18.62 with free shipping over $100, but the retail premium is still much higher. Thier buy price BTW was almost $1 per ASE more than the seller you posted.

    Where are these APMEX wholesale prices to which you refer? I think they used to have a dealer portal, but not sure if they still do. I remember a couple years ago, a local dealer lamenting the fact that APMEX was getting away from wholesaling and moving towards retail. The fact that SD is paying about spot for ASEs tells me that they really don't want to buy any. What dummy in their right mind is going to sell MBs of ASEs at spot and pay shipping?

    theknowitalltroll;
  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,101 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    The AP that I cited above selling ASE MBs for $2.12 over also has free shipping by FEDEX ground.

    Apmex wholesale when I made my earlier post was $18.62 with free shipping over $100, but the retail premium is still much higher. Thier buy price BTW was almost $1 per ASE more than the seller you posted.

    Where are these APMEX wholesale prices to which you refer? I think they used to have a dealer portal, but not sure if they still do. I remember a couple years ago, a local dealer lamenting the fact that APMEX was getting away from wholesaling and moving towards retail. The fact that SD is paying about spot for ASEs tells me that they really don't want to buy any. What dummy in their right mind is going to sell MBs of ASEs at spot and pay shipping?

    apmex has a dealer portal still and that is where I am getting the wholesale quotes.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So what is their premium over spot to dealers for a MB of 2017 ASEs?

    theknowitalltroll;
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,293 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I bought in April. Might have to buy more in May.

  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 6,796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @VanHalen said:

    @Baley said:
    "MB", that's 500 at a time, right?

    Yep. I'm still waiting for a Mini-Box of 10 rolls. Right sized for my budget. :D

    APMEX sells a mini monster box. It contains 100 ASEs. Sorry I don't know how to add a link.

  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭

    All this talk of ASE's and Apmex just made me evacuate my stomach

    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Downtown1974 said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @Baley said:
    "MB", that's 500 at a time, right?

    Yep. I'm still waiting for a Mini-Box of 10 rolls. Right sized for my budget. :D

    APMEX sells a mini monster box. It contains 100 ASEs. Sorry I don't know how to add a link.

    U. S. Gold Bureau has an 8 roll box which includes a free Monster Box and IIRC free shipping for about $2.48 over.

    https://invest.usgoldbureau.com/8-rolls-of-1-silver-american-eagles-with-free-monster-box#

    theknowitalltroll;
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    The AP that I cited above selling ASE MBs for $2.12 over also has free shipping by FEDEX ground.

    Apmex wholesale when I made my earlier post was $18.62 with free shipping over $100, but the retail premium is still much higher. Thier buy price BTW was almost $1 per ASE more than the seller you posted.

    Where are these APMEX wholesale prices to which you refer? I think they used to have a dealer portal, but not sure if they still do. I remember a couple years ago, a local dealer lamenting the fact that APMEX was getting away from wholesaling and moving towards retail. The fact that SD is paying about spot for ASEs tells me that they really don't want to buy any. What dummy in their right mind is going to sell MBs of ASEs at spot and pay shipping?

    apmex has a dealer portal still and that is where I am getting the wholesale quotes.

    How eager would the average AP be to sell ASEs to non-dealers at dealer prices in the current market?

    theknowitalltroll;
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,137 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    The AP that I cited above selling ASE MBs for $2.12 over also has free shipping by FEDEX ground.

    Apmex wholesale when I made my earlier post was $18.62 with free shipping over $100, but the retail premium is still much higher. Thier buy price BTW was almost $1 per ASE more than the seller you posted.

    Where are these APMEX wholesale prices to which you refer? I think they used to have a dealer portal, but not sure if they still do. I remember a couple years ago, a local dealer lamenting the fact that APMEX was getting away from wholesaling and moving towards retail. The fact that SD is paying about spot for ASEs tells me that they really don't want to buy any. What dummy in their right mind is going to sell MBs of ASEs at spot and pay shipping?

    apmex has a dealer portal still and that is where I am getting the wholesale quotes.

    How eager would the average AP be to sell ASEs to non-dealers at dealer prices in the current market?

    Great question. If you could get a list of these distributers and their phone numbers you could call them and ask them. It only takes one that is willing to sell a MB to a non-dealer.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Downtown1974 said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @Baley said:
    "MB", that's 500 at a time, right?

    Yep. I'm still waiting for a Mini-Box of 10 rolls. Right sized for my budget. :D

    APMEX sells a mini monster box. It contains 100 ASEs. Sorry I don't know how to add a link.

    THIS?

    That's got screw job written all over it at $393 a roll compared to the US GB deal which is about $375 per roll.

    apmex.com/product/114807/2017-100-coin-silver-american-eagle-apmex-mini-monster-box

    theknowitalltroll;
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2017 5:43AM

    @PerryHall said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    The AP that I cited above selling ASE MBs for $2.12 over also has free shipping by FEDEX ground.

    Apmex wholesale when I made my earlier post was $18.62 with free shipping over $100, but the retail premium is still much higher. Thier buy price BTW was almost $1 per ASE more than the seller you posted.

    Where are these APMEX wholesale prices to which you refer? I think they used to have a dealer portal, but not sure if they still do. I remember a couple years ago, a local dealer lamenting the fact that APMEX was getting away from wholesaling and moving towards retail. The fact that SD is paying about spot for ASEs tells me that they really don't want to buy any. What dummy in their right mind is going to sell MBs of ASEs at spot and pay shipping?

    apmex has a dealer portal still and that is where I am getting the wholesale quotes.

    How eager would the average AP be to sell ASEs to non-dealers at dealer prices in the current market?

    Great question. If you could get a list of these distributers and their phone numbers you could call them and ask them. It only takes one that is willing to sell a MB to a non-dealer.

    I could but I'm not going to.

    I asked one and will let you know what they say.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,293 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Walmart shoppers unite.

  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 6,796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    THIS?

    That's got screw job written all over it at $393 a roll compared to the US GB deal which is about $375 per roll.

    apmex.com/product/114807/2017-100-coin-silver-american-eagle-apmex-mini-monster-box

    I didn't say it was the best deal. I was simply commenting on Van Halen's post of smaller monster boxes. It's an option for somebody who doesn't want to cough up over 9 grand for a monster box.

  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,101 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    The AP that I cited above selling ASE MBs for $2.12 over also has free shipping by FEDEX ground.

    Apmex wholesale when I made my earlier post was $18.62 with free shipping over $100, but the retail premium is still much higher. Thier buy price BTW was almost $1 per ASE more than the seller you posted.

    Where are these APMEX wholesale prices to which you refer? I think they used to have a dealer portal, but not sure if they still do. I remember a couple years ago, a local dealer lamenting the fact that APMEX was getting away from wholesaling and moving towards retail. The fact that SD is paying about spot for ASEs tells me that they really don't want to buy any. What dummy in their right mind is going to sell MBs of ASEs at spot and pay shipping?

    apmex has a dealer portal still and that is where I am getting the wholesale quotes.

    How eager would the average AP be to sell ASEs to non-dealers at dealer prices in the current market?

    I'm guessing they aren't too eager(even though a rep calls me at least once a week). But eager or not, if they don't have the items dealers need for reasonable prices they will go elsewhere.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Downtown1974 said:

    THIS?

    That's got screw job written all over it at $393 a roll compared to the US GB deal which is about $375 per roll.

    apmex.com/product/114807/2017-100-coin-silver-american-eagle-apmex-mini-monster-box

    I didn't say it was the best deal. I was simply commenting on Van Halen's post of smaller monster boxes. It's an option for somebody who doesn't want to cough up over 9 grand for a monster box.

    I think even the $2.29 over from SDBullion might be a better deal.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @bigjpst said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    The AP that I cited above selling ASE MBs for $2.12 over also has free shipping by FEDEX ground.

    Apmex wholesale when I made my earlier post was $18.62 with free shipping over $100, but the retail premium is still much higher. Thier buy price BTW was almost $1 per ASE more than the seller you posted.

    Where are these APMEX wholesale prices to which you refer? I think they used to have a dealer portal, but not sure if they still do. I remember a couple years ago, a local dealer lamenting the fact that APMEX was getting away from wholesaling and moving towards retail. The fact that SD is paying about spot for ASEs tells me that they really don't want to buy any. What dummy in their right mind is going to sell MBs of ASEs at spot and pay shipping?

    apmex has a dealer portal still and that is where I am getting the wholesale quotes.

    How eager would the average AP be to sell ASEs to non-dealers at dealer prices in the current market?

    I'm guessing they aren't too eager(even though a rep calls me at least once a week). But eager or not, if they don't have the items dealers need for reasonable prices they will go elsewhere.

    The one I contacted that actually posts their dealer prices indicated that you'd have to be a dealer to get those prices.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • carew4mecarew4me Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭✭

    In the glorious past I can remember buying SAE rolls for $220-$240 ea around 2005ish.
    SAE sold a total of 9m for the year 2005. No one remarked. No one cared.
    Less noise. Less "experts". Life was good, hoping for more of that...
    Love this trend.


    Loves me some shiny!
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Downtown1974 said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @Baley said:
    "MB", that's 500 at a time, right?

    Yep. I'm still waiting for a Mini-Box of 10 rolls. Right sized for my budget. :D

    APMEX sells a mini monster box. It contains 100 ASEs. Sorry I don't know how to add a link.

    That's a cool box. Never seen one of those and would like to acquire a few empty boxes.

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    demand is lagging, I cant give the crap away . many of the dealers in this area saying the same thing, no buyers.

    you get a few scragglers buying 5 oz or so here and there, but they are far and few between.

  • ChrisRxChrisRx Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭

    @VanHalen said:

    @Downtown1974 said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @Baley said:
    "MB", that's 500 at a time, right?

    Yep. I'm still waiting for a Mini-Box of 10 rolls. Right sized for my budget. :D

    APMEX sells a mini monster box. It contains 100 ASEs. Sorry I don't know how to add a link.

    That's a cool box. Never seen one of those and would like to acquire a few empty boxes.

    "Buy the box."

    image
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