Why Coin Dealers Drink---Part CCCCXXXX
CaptHenway
Posts: 32,840 ✭✭✭✭✭
Sad story posted on the dealer-to-dealer network about some coins offered to the dealer by the estate of a former customer:
"Have a client who purchased 40 2014-W Gold American Eagles Reagan Legacy
PCGS SP/70 from US Money Reserves for $4,447 each. Yup! Also has 29 2016-W
PCGS SP/70 (purchased at$4,715) and 4 2016-W SP/69 (purchased at 3,920/1) all from the extremely rare Michael Reagan signature series as told by US Money Reserves. This customer (or victim) was told by US Money Reserves that they do not re-purchase these coins. He is aware that these coins will bring nowhere near of what he paid. Anyone care to make an offer, or just a comment?"
He later added that the customer used to buy straight bullion from him and was very picky about the pricing, and he had no idea how or why the guy started buying this stuff instead.
Comments
Alcohol is a helluf a drug
Steve
Wow! Even if they bought at the peak gold price in 2014 which was around $1330 per OZ, that's a $3117 dollar over spot.... You would think someone would check to see if that was a good deal before buying 40 of them at $177,880.
Here is one that sold for almost 2K
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-50-Gold-Eagle-Reagan-Legacy-1OZ-PCGS-MS70-Michael-Reagan-Signed-RARE-/322442485639?hash=item4b1311df87:g:MD4AAOSw32lYtmmW
I helped a dealer friend of mine appraise a large collection purchased from one of these places (can't remember which one, but they had legal problems and had changed their names several times). He had passed away and his family had all of the coins and receipts for them. It was a lot of US and foreign gold (which he bought at double, triple retail, or quadruple retail), and things like PCGS 66 no edge lettering Washington and Adams presidential dollars for which he paid around $2k each. The appraisal total came in at about 1/4 of what he paid.
Jeezus ! if ever there was a case for prosecuting elder abuse, I would think that this fits the bill for an indictment.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
I suggested to the dealer that he suggest this to the Executor of the estate.
Reminds me of the Southpark episode on the Jewelry channel selling incredibly "rare" Craponite jewels as investments/legacy heirlooms to the elderly.
"he had no idea how or why the guy started buying this stuff instead."
How about dementia for starters ?
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
This reads more like why doctors prescribe psychtropic medicine to coin collectors rather than why coin dealers drink.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
It's not just coins folks. This crap happens in a million ways every day. Cons, charlatans, and deceitful selling is as old as money itself.
I have no idea how to end it, but I for one would be happy to see these lowlifes prosecuted for their actions. Free markets only work if both sides benefit from a transaction. It's a shame we as a society don't care enough to stop this.
I would suggest starting by writing your Senators and Congressmen (Women) in your state.
Was that the listing, or was it sold for that price?
Listing is one thing and selling is another!
Sold price. it is in green on ebay under "sold"
Watchcount has it as sold also...At that price
My YouTube Channel
Terrible
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Actually, that's not the first thing I was thinking....
Instead, I was thinking that, although he had been purchasing bullion from the dealer, he must not have felt all that comfortable with the dealer. Else, he would have likely discussed, with the dealer, some of the "new purchases" he was making/going to make, and if the dealer had similar for less.
The customer is the one that got hosed...through no fault of the dealer. I'm definitely not saying it was the dealer's fault.
However, dealer also lost out, obviously, on a lot of sales. Without knowing what type of dealer/customer relationship they had, it is really hard to know, but it obviously wasn't a close/solid one.
So, customer watches TV, reads an ad in a magazine, or gets a cold call from these creeps and starts buying. Obviously doing it on his own and without consulting those that could/should/would know better. Probably wanted to salt it away for family or wealth preservation due to thinking the government was going to keep coming after all his money.
He got hosed, his heirs got hosed, and everyone but the selling creeps lost out.
I don't see why this would be "why dealers drink" at all. Should be more of "why dealers should get mad when crooks hose customers/collectors and make everyone look bad".
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Man... are there any good dealer stories.
Say finding a $50,000 coin in a bulk lot and repatriating some funds back to the family?
There are good dealer stories.... however, like the news... "If it bleeds, it leads."..... The bad news is what sells. There have been efforts at 'good news' reporting... they fail. Cheers, RickO
Don't confuse scammers with "dealers." They're scammers that would be scamming with any scam they could scam people on. Did I mention they were scammers?
Agree. A coin dealer would never scam a customer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Some would. Some wouldn't even consider it. Just as with any profession: Auto mechanic, Investment advisor, Contractor, Lawyer...
Sorry. I thought it was obvious that I was being sarcastic.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Got ya. I'm sorry too. It's hard for me to keep the the humorists separate from the haters sometimes on this board.
TGIF, and I'll drink to that (coffee please)
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Indeed.
A banker friend once called me to look at some coins that a customer had been buying from a Long Island telemarketer. He knew nothing about coins, swallowed the sales pitch and had spent $167k. The coins were legitimately certified and collectible. The problem: They charged him 6x their true value.
I tried to convince him to contact the attorney general's office but he was too embarrassed and didn't want anyone to know he had been so gullible. That's a common reaction and one reason that the problem perpetuates.
Imagine what he could have bought with the money......
The dealers who sold the coins were drinking.....in celebration.
Having worked behind the counter for over 25 years, it gets very old being the bearer of bad news telling yet another person that they have been cheated.
Nope. The Internet is where sarcasm went to die...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I get that, I actually do. However, while I feel sorry for THAT type of (the nice one) dealer who has to deliver the bad news AND the customer....I would get more fired up about the ripoff "dealer".
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Law enforcement should be used a lot more, there are a lot of crooks operating under cover of "its a free country", "no one held a gun to his head", or some other bs. Greed ruins everything when it gets out of control.
It's a shame we as a society don't care enough to stop this.
They do care but most are to embarrassed to come forward.
Certain people seem to think that all dealers are bad. I always tried to be one of the good ones.
It is a sham that one bad apple spoil the rest:(
Who gets to decide what is considered a "criminal markup" in price? There are dealers out there who are considered pillars of the coin collecting community who IMO are outrageous when it comes to pricing. At least these guys are selling certified coins as is.
Some guys out there claim that every coin they have for sale is seriously undergraded. That is more unethical. But these guys have "been in the business for decades". So it's OK. Who is going to speak out against them? Oh wait. I did a while back. And the overwhelming response was "don't buy it if you don't want to". How is this any different?