Tarkenton yards per pass attempt for career 7.3, Aikman 7.0. Tarkenton yards gained per pass completion career 12.8. Aikman 11.4.
Tarkenton's best receivers until his last three years when he got Sammy White and Ahmad Rashad were Jerry Reichow, Paul Flatley, Homer Jones and John Gilliam. Chuck Foreman also arrived in Fran's last 6 years.
Aikman had Michael Irvin every single year he played except his final season, plus Jay Novacek, Alvin Harper, Rocket Ismail along with Emmitt Smith in the backfield for all but his rookie season. PLUS the greatest O Line in the history of O Lines.
Please come up with some facts, ("I heard" doesn't count) to dispute.
Looks to me that Tarkenton played better with lesser teammates. The only advantage Troy has is in Super Bowl wins, a team, not individual accomplishment.
Tarkenton did not have a cannon for an arm. LOOK up some of the video of him scrambling, he made a LOT of plays with his legs Aikman couldn't even dream of.
Finally, I will repeat "underrated and unappreciated" was the subject of the thread. Aikman is neither of these. Tarkenton is both.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Someone said he was a game manager. That is a great statement. It is the same tag people give to Bart Starr. Mind you Aikman could not hold Starr's jock but game manager is a perfect job description for Aikman. Aikman averaged 11.4 yards per completion. If that does not state he is a short passer I don't know what does. Tarkenton averaged 12.8, but he did not throw deep. BTW that 11.4 is the lowest for any HOF QB.
You know what I am finding is that Aikman seems to have the worst stats of any QB in the Hall.
Won't argue a bit that Fran had only an adequate arm. So what? Montana didn't have a big arm either!
If anyone cares to look at the 1961-66 Vikings and 1967-71 Giants (won't happen) they will see HISTORICALLY BAD teams. The Vikings especially as an expansion team were pathetic. The Giants won 1 game in 1966.
In 17 of his 18 seasons Fran was in top 10 in attempts, completions, yards and completion percentage. In 15 of 18 he was top 10 in passer rating.
Aikman had top 10 finishes in completion percentage in 8 out of 12 seasons. He had 6 seasons in the top 10 in passer rating.
Neither Aikman nor Tarkenton was the top rated passer in a season.
Fran was second in 1967, 1968, 1973 and 1975. Top QB's in those years were Jurgensen, Starr, Staubach and Ken Anderson. Third in 1964 behind Unitas and Starr. Fourth in 1970 and 1972. Fifth in 1968. Sixth in 1965-66 and 1976, seventh three times and ninth in his second to last year.
Aikman had a second place, two thirds, a five, a six and an eighth place finish. Young was first almost every year with Favre, Elway and Marino also ahead of Troy much of the time.
Steve Young had a nice run!!!!!! He hasn't been mentioned yet has he?
I don't see where Troy is ANYWHERE near as good as Fran, and he was on better teams.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Sometimes it's more about the supporting cast than the starting QB though some fail to understand that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@grote15 said:
Trent Dilfer "won" a Super Bowl, too.
Sometimes it's more about the supporting cast than the starting QB though some fail to understand that.
So you are comparing Dilfer to Aikman! LOL
No, just trying to show you how Aikman was not as good as you think he was. He was a solid QB, but without his supporting cast he doesn't get to the Super Bowl. Conversely, any solid QB in his place would have also won 3 Super Bowls with that team. I don't know why that is so difficult for you to comprehend.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@grote15 said:
Trent Dilfer "won" a Super Bowl, too.
Sometimes it's more about the supporting cast than the starting QB though some fail to understand that.
So you are comparing Dilfer to Aikman! LOL
Troy, every 16 games: 16 TDs, 14 INT, 3194 Yds
Trent*, every 16 games: 16 TDs, 18 INT, 2905 yds
I'm not being totally honest here as I'm ignoring the fact that Dilfer piled up some yds and TDs in non-starts. I counted everything for him as occurring in a start and ignoring everything else. So I calculated as if he had 113 games played total, not 130. Reality is he's probably more like 15/17/2800
The takeaway from this is that Troy's average season was...average.
Agree Tabe. Aikman's literally the most fortunate QB I know of. His TD to INT ratio very average. 165/141. His QBR is 81.1. Again very average. He is the fortunate product of playing on a good to great team during his tenure. That is why he is in the HOF. It ain't on stats.
These are the QB's that most align with Aikman statistically--Jaworski, McNair, Namath, Grogan, Snead, Plunkett, Gabriel, Hasselback and Carson Palmer. Aikman is statistically towards the tail end of that list. How many on that list are in the HOF?
As for Tarkenton he threw for twice as many TD's as Aikman and 15,000 more yards. Statically he compares more to players like Fouts , Moon, Elway, Anderson, Manning, Farve and Brees. Source ProFootball Reference.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
Agree Tabe. Aikman's literally the most fortunate QB I know of. His TD to INT ratio very average. 165/141. His QBR is 81.1. Again very average. He is the fortunate product of playing on a good to great team during his tenure. That is why he is in the HOF. It ain't on stats.
These are the QB's that most align with Aikman statistically--Jaworski, McNair, Namath, Grogan, Snead, Plunkett, Gabriel, Hasselback and Carson Palmer. Aikman is statistically towards the tail end of that list. How many on that list are in the HOF?
@Justacommeman said:
Agree Tabe. Aikman's literally the most fortunate QB I know of. His TD to INT ratio very average. 165/141. His QBR is 81.1. Again very average. He is the fortunate product of playing on a good to great team during his tenure. That is why he is in the HOF. It ain't on stats.
These are the QB's that most align with Aikman statistically--Jaworski, McNair, Namath, Grogan, Snead, Plunkett, Gabriel, Hasselback and Carson Palmer. Aikman is statistically towards the tail end of that list. How many on that list are in the HOF?
As for Tarkenton he threw for twice as many TD's as Aikman and 15,000 more yards. Statically he compares more to players like Fouts , Moon, Elway, Anderson, Manning, Farve and Brees. Source ProFootball Reference.
mark
Aikman doesn't need me to defend his career but here are some meaningful stats. A QB is much like the pitcher in Baseball. He get gets the win or loss, but is not the only deciding factor. While a 81.6 career is not impressive his 111 rating in SB's is.
Dallas Cowboys (1989–2000)
Career highlights and awards
3× Super Bowl champion (XXVII, XXVIII, XXX),
Super Bowl MVP (XXVII)
6× Pro Bowl (1991–1996)
First-team All-Pro (1993)
Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year (1996)
Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor
Davey O'Brien Award (1989)
Consensus All-American (1988)
UCLA Bruins No. 8 retired
Career NFL statistics
Pass attempts: 4,715
Pass completions: 2,898
Percentage: 61.5
TD–INT: 165–141
Passing yards: 32,942
Passer rating: 81.6
Player stats at NFL.com
Player stats at PFR
Pro Football Hall of Fame
College Football Hall of Fame
90 of his 94 career wins were in the 1990s and were the most by any quarterback in any decade until Peyton Manning surpassed him in the 2000s with 115 wins. Presently, Aikman is third on that list, also trailing Tom Brady (97)
Agree Tabe. Aikman's literally the most fortunate QB I know of. His TD to INT ratio very average. 165/141. His QBR is 81.1. Again very average. He is the fortunate product of playing on a good to great team during his tenure. That is why he is in the HOF. It ain't on stats.
These are the QB's that most align with Aikman statistically--Jaworski, McNair, Namath, Grogan, Snead, Plunkett, Gabriel, Hasselback and Carson Palmer. Aikman is statistically towards the tail end of that list. How many on that list are in the HOF?
As for Tarkenton he threw for twice as many TD's as Aikman and 15,000 more yards. Statically he compares more to players like Fouts , Moon, Elway, Anderson, Manning, Farve and Brees. Source ProFootball Reference.
mark
Looks correct.
No one is saying Aikman was an average quarterback. He was a great quarterback. He was 3-0 in Super Bowls.
He is however, overrated. The subject of this thread is underrated and unappreciated. Let's try to stay on topic.
Norm Van Brocklin is another not yet mentioned 9 times pro bowl out of 11 seasons, and he was a great punter!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Comments
grote - please don't tell me you agree with this silliness about Tarkenton.....please!
Aikman didn't have a cannon, but he threw deeper than Tarkenton. Tarkenton shouldn't even be in this conversation!
Troy had 6 seasons where he averaged less than 7 yards per attempt. He most definitely was a short passer.
Tarkenton yards per pass attempt for career 7.3, Aikman 7.0. Tarkenton yards gained per pass completion career 12.8. Aikman 11.4.
Tarkenton's best receivers until his last three years when he got Sammy White and Ahmad Rashad were Jerry Reichow, Paul Flatley, Homer Jones and John Gilliam. Chuck Foreman also arrived in Fran's last 6 years.
Aikman had Michael Irvin every single year he played except his final season, plus Jay Novacek, Alvin Harper, Rocket Ismail along with Emmitt Smith in the backfield for all but his rookie season. PLUS the greatest O Line in the history of O Lines.
Please come up with some facts, ("I heard" doesn't count) to dispute.
Looks to me that Tarkenton played better with lesser teammates. The only advantage Troy has is in Super Bowl wins, a team, not individual accomplishment.
Tarkenton did not have a cannon for an arm. LOOK up some of the video of him scrambling, he made a LOT of plays with his legs Aikman couldn't even dream of.
Finally, I will repeat "underrated and unappreciated" was the subject of the thread. Aikman is neither of these. Tarkenton is both.
Someone said he was a game manager. That is a great statement. It is the same tag people give to Bart Starr. Mind you Aikman could not hold Starr's jock but game manager is a perfect job description for Aikman. Aikman averaged 11.4 yards per completion. If that does not state he is a short passer I don't know what does. Tarkenton averaged 12.8, but he did not throw deep. BTW that 11.4 is the lowest for any HOF QB.
You know what I am finding is that Aikman seems to have the worst stats of any QB in the Hall.
Won't argue a bit that Fran had only an adequate arm. So what? Montana didn't have a big arm either!
If anyone cares to look at the 1961-66 Vikings and 1967-71 Giants (won't happen) they will see HISTORICALLY BAD teams. The Vikings especially as an expansion team were pathetic. The Giants won 1 game in 1966.
In 17 of his 18 seasons Fran was in top 10 in attempts, completions, yards and completion percentage. In 15 of 18 he was top 10 in passer rating.
Aikman had top 10 finishes in completion percentage in 8 out of 12 seasons. He had 6 seasons in the top 10 in passer rating.
Neither Aikman nor Tarkenton was the top rated passer in a season.
Fran was second in 1967, 1968, 1973 and 1975. Top QB's in those years were Jurgensen, Starr, Staubach and Ken Anderson. Third in 1964 behind Unitas and Starr. Fourth in 1970 and 1972. Fifth in 1968. Sixth in 1965-66 and 1976, seventh three times and ninth in his second to last year.
Aikman had a second place, two thirds, a five, a six and an eighth place finish. Young was first almost every year with Favre, Elway and Marino also ahead of Troy much of the time.
Steve Young had a nice run!!!!!! He hasn't been mentioned yet has he?
I don't see where Troy is ANYWHERE near as good as Fran, and he was on better teams.
Here are the only Aikman stats that are important!
Super Bowl Statistics
Super Bowls Comp Att Pct Yards TDs INTs Rate Result
XXVII 22 30 73.4 273 4 0 140.7 W 52–17....................... MVP
XXVIII 19 27 70.4 207 0 1 77.2 W 30–13
XXX 15 23 65.3 209 1 0 108.8 W 27–17
Totals 56 80 70.0 689 5 1 111.9 W/L Record 3–0
Trent Dilfer "won" a Super Bowl, too.
Sometimes it's more about the supporting cast than the starting QB though some fail to understand that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
So you are comparing Dilfer to Aikman! LOL
No, just trying to show you how Aikman was not as good as you think he was. He was a solid QB, but without his supporting cast he doesn't get to the Super Bowl. Conversely, any solid QB in his place would have also won 3 Super Bowls with that team. I don't know why that is so difficult for you to comprehend.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Troy, every 16 games: 16 TDs, 14 INT, 3194 Yds
Trent*, every 16 games: 16 TDs, 18 INT, 2905 yds
The takeaway from this is that Troy's average season was...average.
Agree Tabe. Aikman's literally the most fortunate QB I know of. His TD to INT ratio very average. 165/141. His QBR is 81.1. Again very average. He is the fortunate product of playing on a good to great team during his tenure. That is why he is in the HOF. It ain't on stats.
These are the QB's that most align with Aikman statistically--Jaworski, McNair, Namath, Grogan, Snead, Plunkett, Gabriel, Hasselback and Carson Palmer. Aikman is statistically towards the tail end of that list. How many on that list are in the HOF?
As for Tarkenton he threw for twice as many TD's as Aikman and 15,000 more yards. Statically he compares more to players like Fouts , Moon, Elway, Anderson, Manning, Farve and Brees. Source ProFootball Reference.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Poor Steve Mcnair , I liked that guy ,
Aikman doesn't need me to defend his career but here are some meaningful stats. A QB is much like the pitcher in Baseball. He get gets the win or loss, but is not the only deciding factor. While a 81.6 career is not impressive his 111 rating in SB's is.
Dallas Cowboys (1989–2000)
Career highlights and awards
3× Super Bowl champion (XXVII, XXVIII, XXX),
Super Bowl MVP (XXVII)
6× Pro Bowl (1991–1996)
First-team All-Pro (1993)
Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year (1996)
Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor
Davey O'Brien Award (1989)
Consensus All-American (1988)
UCLA Bruins No. 8 retired
Career NFL statistics
Pass attempts: 4,715
Pass completions: 2,898
Percentage: 61.5
TD–INT: 165–141
Passing yards: 32,942
Passer rating: 81.6
Player stats at NFL.com
Player stats at PFR
Pro Football Hall of Fame
College Football Hall of Fame
90 of his 94 career wins were in the 1990s and were the most by any quarterback in any decade until Peyton Manning surpassed him in the 2000s with 115 wins. Presently, Aikman is third on that list, also trailing Tom Brady (97)
I wouldn't call Troy average by any means.
Yes that's nice> @Justacommeman said:
Looks correct.
No one is saying Aikman was an average quarterback. He was a great quarterback. He was 3-0 in Super Bowls.
He is however, overrated. The subject of this thread is underrated and unappreciated. Let's try to stay on topic.
Norm Van Brocklin is another not yet mentioned 9 times pro bowl out of 11 seasons, and he was a great punter!