Which edge view holder lets you see the most of the coin?
Zoins
Posts: 34,289 ✭✭✭✭✭
While I haven't traditionally been a huge fan of the ATS slabs (side from the fatty soap bar, black and white), one thing that does stand out is that I can see much more of the edge of the coin with their edge view holders. It seems like that the combination of the following helps:
- smaller prong width
- more distance between edge and insert sometimes the ring on the PCGS slab collapses/sags a bit into the gap
- tapered edge
These three things allow me to see much more of the coin on an edge view holder and makes it seem more like the coin is being suspended.
What do you think? Agree, disagree?
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For my series, the PCGS edge view often covers up important areas when it comes to attribution (dentils, tops of letters). Not so much with NGC prongs
Their prongs are opaque. So while they may cover less of the coin they conceal much more.
Lance.
They may conceal more of the face, but they show more of the edge which I'm starting to appreciate more. I might be interesting to have something using PCGS translucent material but more ATS form factors.
No, they conceal more of the edge by making it impossible to see what is underneath the prong.
Lance.
I know you're referring to the translucent material but I'm talking about degrees of 360. The 4 prongs have a smaller overall coverage in degrees, both individually and in aggregate.
Zoins, you're a very smart fellow. I know that. But we seem to be misfiring.
NGC's prongs hide parts of the rim. Enough such that unfortunate surprises can be hidden (my first set of images). PCGS's translucent gasket isn't perfect. But it is usually good enough to know that there is no dreadful damage lurking beneath.
I get that the NGC prongs cover less than PCGS's prongs. And that can be advantageous when attributing, as Barndog says.
My feeling is I'd rather have a little more covered by translucent prongs I can see through than somewhat less covered by opaque ones that might hide damage.
It's okay to disagree. I still respect your opinions.
Lance.
@lkeigwin I agree the translucent material allows you to see more (or anything) underneath the prong which is useful, especially for photos.
I think both holders have their advantages and disadvantages. A combination of translucent material and thinner prongs may be the best.
Part of the reasoning for this post is to have PCGS consider enhancing their slab to show more of the edge, similar to the suggestion to make the inserts viewable from above. I'm thinking about the Gen 7.0 slab
Personally I have no use or interest for the edge holders. I like the old gaskets better.
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A Packaging Engineer once looked at a couple of slabs I had on my desk (he was not a coin collector) and remarked how poorly they were designed. I asked him what he meant. He said they do not allow full visibility (which we all realize). I then said, how would you design the slab? He recommended an elevated section to contain the coin, complimented by the rear section also having the same to secure the coin. Then all sides would be visible and the slabs would still stack. Nice input from a professional.... makes you wonder why it has not been done. Cheers, RickO
Several slabs have tried variations on that design. Heck, I have a thin plastic two-piece (almost like a 2x2) that has that design.
The problem seems to be stacking.
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Being a big fan of DirectFit AirTites, I will say that @Hussulo has some interesting proposals including the one below which could be combined with a top-viewable insert.
While this is an interesting design study, it may be too expensive for TPGs if they have to have a different shell for each size coin type.
Somehow, you have to secure the coin in place while providing a view of the edge and avoiding creating another rattler slab. PCGS's softer gasket grips better without encroaching on the coin too much the way NGC's gasket does. A holder with the coin elevated as shown above would have to have a way of securely gripping coins such that they didn't rattle in the holder. This would probably be a major challenge for coins that aren't perfectly round. I believe there is a British company that shows the coin elevated above the surface of the slab, but I can't recall the name.
Another approach for seeing the edge of the coin is a clear gasket that is a circular pentaprism, which would reflect the edge, right-reading, to one side of the slab. This is what was used by Masters Numismatic Services (do they still exist?) for modern lettered edge stuff. If this gasket were soft enough to grip older coins so that they didn't rattle, although not too soft so that they squished over the rim and obscured it, and clear enough to transmit the edge details, that would seem to be the ideal gasket for this approach.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
the PCGS capsule is better for one simple reason; being clear plastic it allows for more light to reach the coin surface/edge which translates to a better view. also, for any coin smaller than a Quarter or maybe a Nickel the NGC holder is just to thick and smaller coins are almost always tilted. the result is dark areas when viewing and shadows when photographing.
This isn't just about which one is better now and certainly the PCGS slab is better in some areas. It's about whether the PCGS slab can be improved.
While the PCGS slab may be better for photos, seeing much more of the edge improves enjoyment for me and it would be great to have that as well.
if it is worthwhile for someone to make something like what you posted above it will get done. that would probably be a specialty slab, not a standard slab. I suppose it could be similar to the way that PCGS/NGC have a thicker shell and insert for some medals that go in a standard size capsule. the difficulty with your edge-view capsule is that it means the coin would need to protrude , unprotected, and one of the two sides would be obscured from viewing a little.
I'd be a big fan of any holder able to display all of the coin's 3rd side while protecting the viewing portion of the slab from common scratches.
It would be wonderful for lettered-edge coins especially.
Lance.
I knew @lkeigwin would have posted his large cent here before I even opened the thread...
Does that mean I've been around this place too long
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In my humble opinion... SEGS has the best slab on the market today.
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I think I found my answer for real slabs used by TPGs.
I saw these online from Yuan-Tai Grading and needed to pick one up to see it in hand. The amount of edge view these provide is pretty incredible. If they switched to clear prongs, it would be even better. I'm not sure how sturdy these are but it feels like you are viewing a museum display. The slab is completely clear and the edge of the slab is smooth so you can see through it to the coin. The black below is all from the background.
PCGS should get a hold of one of these to examine.
I like those slabs!