@derryb said:
My opinion goes with that of paypal: Proof of delivery required for seller to satisfy completion of the transaction. I believe credit card claims work on the same principle. At any rate BST parties should be clear on when buyer becomes the owner of the item. I personally am responsible for anything I sell on the BST until post office says "delivered."
Fact is shipper is acting as agent of the seller, not the buyer.
So then PP has determined that the seller is legally responsible? How can they penalize someone using criteria that are contrary to law? If the law says that I'm not liable for loss, then PP can't rule that I am.
That's why I wish someone would make a legal determination.
Generally agree that it's best that both parties are clear about terms.
So then PP has determined that the seller is legally responsible? How can they penalize someone using criteria that are contrary to law? If the law says that I'm not liable for loss, then PP can't rule that I am.
That's why I wish someone would make a legal determination.
Generally agree that it's best that both parties are clear about terms.
Don't deliver an ebay item and you'll see how PP penalizes someone. Not a matter of law. It's a matter of your agreement with them.
If I buy something with the understanding that I will receive it then it's the seller's responsibility to make sure I receive it. If I don't then seller has not completed the transaction. As a buyer I don't need insurance, as a seller I do. Seller chooses his agent to make the delivery, seller is responsible for agent's failure to deliver. Insurance protects him in the case of such failure. As a buyer, PP (and my CC co.) protect me. So, no, I'm not gonna pay extra for insurance.
Note that any reputable on-line seller will make you whole if you don't receive item. I know of none of them that charge extra to insure your shipment. Consider it an industry standard (not to mention a good business practice), not a law.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
So then PP has determined that the seller is legally responsible? How can they penalize someone using criteria that are contrary to law? If the law says that I'm not liable for loss, then PP can't rule that I am.
That's why I wish someone would make a legal determination.
Generally agree that it's best that both parties are clear about terms.
Don't deliver an ebay item and you'll see how PP penalizes someone. Not a matter of law. It's a matter of your agreement with them.
If I buy something with the understanding that I will receive it then it's the seller's responsibility to make sure I receive it. If I don't then seller has not completed the transaction. As a buyer I don't need insurance, as a seller I do. Seller chooses his agent to make the delivery, seller is responsible for agent's failure to deliver. Insurance protects him in the case of such failure. As a buyer, PP (and my CC co.) protect me. So, no, I'm not gonna pay extra for insurance.
Note that any reputable on-line seller will make you whole if you don't receive item. I know of none of them that charge extra to insure your shipment. Consider it an industry standard (not to mention a good business practice), not a law.
I was limiting my comments to casual sales. As I indicated earlier, a savvy seller just includes the insurance in his/her price without singling it out. Show me something where it says I'm liable if the PO loses an uninsured item.
That being said, the OP lists a lot on the bullionstacker site where it's common practice to add "extra" for insurance. People there know the risks and proceed accordingly.
I'm not starting a pissing contest, just asking people to back up their opinions with facts.
In the case of a lost shipment the fact is that the seller (actually his chosen agent) failed to deliver.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@derryb said:
In the case of a lost shipment the fact is that the seller (actually his chosen agent) failed to deliver.
That's true, but there is no "compelling legal authority" [thank you Al G] that says who is responsible. You seem to have more eBay savvy than the average bear, so maybe eBay's legal department would reveal to you whom they have determined to be the legally responsible party in a transaction.
WTS - 5 Johnson Matthey 1oz silver bars. Individually sealed per picture. Looking for $110 shipped to Canada or the USA. I have not sold here before but have over 200 positive transactions on the bay - user ID Sweetmonkeyco. Includes shipping and payment via PayPal. Please contact via PM or ihurley@rogers.com
So then PP has determined that the seller is legally responsible? How can they penalize someone using criteria that are contrary to law? If the law says that I'm not liable for loss, then PP can't rule that I am.
That's why I wish someone would make a legal determination.
Generally agree that it's best that both parties are clear about terms.
Don't deliver an ebay item and you'll see how PP penalizes someone. Not a matter of law. It's a matter of your agreement with them.
If I buy something with the understanding that I will receive it then it's the seller's responsibility to make sure I receive it. If I don't then seller has not completed the transaction. As a buyer I don't need insurance, as a seller I do. Seller chooses his agent to make the delivery, seller is responsible for agent's failure to deliver. Insurance protects him in the case of such failure. As a buyer, PP (and my CC co.) protect me. So, no, I'm not gonna pay extra for insurance.
Note that any reputable on-line seller will make you whole if you don't receive item. I know of none of them that charge extra to insure your shipment. Consider it an industry standard (not to mention a good business practice), not a law.
I was limiting my comments to casual sales. As I indicated earlier, a savvy seller just includes the insurance in his/her price without singling it out. Show me something where it says I'm liable if the PO loses an uninsured item.
That being said, the OP lists a lot on the bullionstacker site where it's common practice to add "extra" for insurance. People there know the risks and proceed accordingly.
I'm not starting a pissing contest, just asking people to back up their opinions with facts.
Claiming "casual sale" is like claiming ignorance of the law... on BS it's not common to add insurance, it's only common when one is a sucker or ignorant of the fact that it's sellers obligation to get product to buyer... as long as you get the sucka to keep paying for it, then it becomes normal and new people coming to the site believe its normal, so like you, it's easier to think your going with the flow...
It's simple, never do a deal with anyone who can't take responsibility for delivery...
So then PP has determined that the seller is legally responsible? How can they penalize someone using criteria that are contrary to law? If the law says that I'm not liable for loss, then PP can't rule that I am.
That's why I wish someone would make a legal determination.
Generally agree that it's best that both parties are clear about terms.
Don't deliver an ebay item and you'll see how PP penalizes someone. Not a matter of law. It's a matter of your agreement with them.
If I buy something with the understanding that I will receive it then it's the seller's responsibility to make sure I receive it. If I don't then seller has not completed the transaction. As a buyer I don't need insurance, as a seller I do. Seller chooses his agent to make the delivery, seller is responsible for agent's failure to deliver. Insurance protects him in the case of such failure. As a buyer, PP (and my CC co.) protect me. So, no, I'm not gonna pay extra for insurance.
Note that any reputable on-line seller will make you whole if you don't receive item. I know of none of them that charge extra to insure your shipment. Consider it an industry standard (not to mention a good business practice), not a law.
I was limiting my comments to casual sales. As I indicated earlier, a savvy seller just includes the insurance in his/her price without singling it out. Show me something where it says I'm liable if the PO loses an uninsured item.
That being said, the OP lists a lot on the bullionstacker site where it's common practice to add "extra" for insurance. People there know the risks and proceed accordingly.
I'm not starting a pissing contest, just asking people to back up their opinions with facts.
Claiming "casual sale" is like claiming ignorance of the law... on BS it's not common to add insurance, it's only common when one is a sucker or ignorant of the fact that it's sellers obligation to get product to buyer... as long as you get the sucka to keep paying for it, then it becomes normal and new people coming to the site believe its normal, so like you, it's easier to think your going with the flow...
It's simple, never do a deal with anyone who can't take responsibility for delivery...
Like I said earlier, if I ship a coin to you and the USPS loses it, "SHOW ME THE LAW" that says I'm responsible for the loss.
I don't know what BS you visit, but there are lots of ads where insurance is extra.
Here's one.
1980 proof gold sovereign in ogp $325 shipped first class with tracking
1992 1/10 oz isle of man cat in mint plastic $135 shipped first class with tracking
any other service at cost
no fee paypal, wells fargo surepay, check or money order
here's another
2016 Perth mint Pearl Harbor 1/10 gold coins in mint capsules
14 11 10 9 available at $133/each + $3 shipping
Any other shipping services at cost
PPFF, PPGS + 3% or GW
AND ANOTHER
Just multiply Kitco Gold Ask price by the Actual Gold Weight (AGW) shown and add the premium to it. OGP = Original Gov't Packaging. Prices shown include basic shipping but insurance if you want it is $7 extra:
Bermuda $100 1975 still sealed W cardboard cut down to 2x2 size .2034 AGW - Melt + $15
Jamestown $5 commemorative proof with all OGP. .2419 AGW - Melt + $15
Martha Washington First Spouse graded perfect NGC MS70. .5000 AGW - Melt + $45
Dolley Madison First Spouse graded perfect NGC Pf70 + all OGP. .5000 AGW - Melt + $95
Kennedy Half 2014 graded NGC Pf69 + all OGP. .7500 AGW - Melt + $45
AND YET ANOTHER
perth lunar 2 lot $125 shipped first class w/ tracking
all bu in mint caps
2013 1 oz snake
2014 1 oz horse
2015 1 oz goat
2016 1 oz monkey
any other service at cost
no fee paypal, wells fargo surepay, check or money order
I've said it here and other places and more than once that your best bet is that both parties agree on terms before you say done deal so you're not telling me anything that I don't already know.
Yes I know, but I replied to the poster in the thread he posted in. Those were examples of ads on another site where the sellers state that insurance is extra.
Yes I know, but I replied to the poster in the thread he posted in. Those were examples of ads on another site where the sellers state that insurance is extra.
Great discussion but it should be in its own separate thread with the monthly BST thread reserved for only actual BST transactions.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Comments
So then PP has determined that the seller is legally responsible? How can they penalize someone using criteria that are contrary to law? If the law says that I'm not liable for loss, then PP can't rule that I am.
That's why I wish someone would make a legal determination.
Generally agree that it's best that both parties are clear about terms.
zzz
Don't deliver an ebay item and you'll see how PP penalizes someone. Not a matter of law. It's a matter of your agreement with them.
If I buy something with the understanding that I will receive it then it's the seller's responsibility to make sure I receive it. If I don't then seller has not completed the transaction. As a buyer I don't need insurance, as a seller I do. Seller chooses his agent to make the delivery, seller is responsible for agent's failure to deliver. Insurance protects him in the case of such failure. As a buyer, PP (and my CC co.) protect me. So, no, I'm not gonna pay extra for insurance.
Note that any reputable on-line seller will make you whole if you don't receive item. I know of none of them that charge extra to insure your shipment. Consider it an industry standard (not to mention a good business practice), not a law.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I was limiting my comments to casual sales. As I indicated earlier, a savvy seller just includes the insurance in his/her price without singling it out. Show me something where it says I'm liable if the PO loses an uninsured item.
That being said, the OP lists a lot on the bullionstacker site where it's common practice to add "extra" for insurance. People there know the risks and proceed accordingly.
I'm not starting a pissing contest, just asking people to back up their opinions with facts.
In the case of a lost shipment the fact is that the seller (actually his chosen agent) failed to deliver.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
That's true, but there is no "compelling legal authority" [thank you Al G] that says who is responsible. You seem to have more eBay savvy than the average bear, so maybe eBay's legal department would reveal to you whom they have determined to be the legally responsible party in a transaction.
Anyone have any silver at or slightly below spot? Thanks!
Good deals with KollectorKing, ChrisRx, Tookybandit, LukeMarshall, and Ajaan! On cointalk, Histman, Sakata, Blisskr, and a few others!
WTS - 5 Johnson Matthey 1oz silver bars. Individually sealed per picture. Looking for $110 shipped to Canada or the USA. I have not sold here before but have over 200 positive transactions on the bay - user ID Sweetmonkeyco. Includes shipping and payment via PayPal. Please contact via PM or ihurley@rogers.com
Selling 2x 5 gram and 1x 10 gram Sunshine Mint Gold sealed bars! Spot + $5 each!
Thanks!
Good deals with KollectorKing, ChrisRx, Tookybandit, LukeMarshall, and Ajaan! On cointalk, Histman, Sakata, Blisskr, and a few others!
Claiming "casual sale" is like claiming ignorance of the law... on BS it's not common to add insurance, it's only common when one is a sucker or ignorant of the fact that it's sellers obligation to get product to buyer... as long as you get the sucka to keep paying for it, then it becomes normal and new people coming to the site believe its normal, so like you, it's easier to think your going with the flow...
It's simple, never do a deal with anyone who can't take responsibility for delivery...
Like I said earlier, if I ship a coin to you and the USPS loses it, "SHOW ME THE LAW" that says I'm responsible for the loss.
I don't know what BS you visit, but there are lots of ads where insurance is extra.
Here's one.
1980 proof gold sovereign in ogp $325 shipped first class with tracking
1992 1/10 oz isle of man cat in mint plastic $135 shipped first class with tracking
any other service at cost
no fee paypal, wells fargo surepay, check or money order
here's another
2016 Perth mint Pearl Harbor 1/10 gold coins in mint capsules
14 11 10 9 available at $133/each + $3 shipping
Any other shipping services at cost
PPFF, PPGS + 3% or GW
AND ANOTHER
Just multiply Kitco Gold Ask price by the Actual Gold Weight (AGW) shown and add the premium to it. OGP = Original Gov't Packaging. Prices shown include basic shipping but insurance if you want it is $7 extra:
Bermuda $100 1975 still sealed W cardboard cut down to 2x2 size .2034 AGW - Melt + $15
Jamestown $5 commemorative proof with all OGP. .2419 AGW - Melt + $15
Martha Washington First Spouse graded perfect NGC MS70. .5000 AGW - Melt + $45
Dolley Madison First Spouse graded perfect NGC Pf70 + all OGP. .5000 AGW - Melt + $95
Kennedy Half 2014 graded NGC Pf69 + all OGP. .7500 AGW - Melt + $45
AND YET ANOTHER
perth lunar 2 lot $125 shipped first class w/ tracking
all bu in mint caps
2013 1 oz snake
2014 1 oz horse
2015 1 oz goat
2016 1 oz monkey
any other service at cost
no fee paypal, wells fargo surepay, check or money order
I've said it here and other places and more than once that your best bet is that both parties agree on terms before you say done deal so you're not telling me anything that I don't already know.
Pair of 1oz YPS cubes.. looking for 48.00 ppd via PayPal FF or add 3%
Will also trade for 2 ASE' in BU condition
Moved to May
--Severian the Lame
Not sure if it matters but there is an
***Official **May **2017 Precious Metals Buy Sell Trade Thread ***
@rawteam1 @BAJJERFAN @Bcookie @Weiss
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Yes I know, but I replied to the poster in the thread he posted in. Those were examples of ads on another site where the sellers state that insurance is extra.
@BAJJERFAN
Sorry, disregard
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Great discussion but it should be in its own separate thread with the monthly BST thread reserved for only actual BST transactions.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire