After Amazon , Ebay sales tax for all .....soon ?

bestday

On Saturday ,Amazon completes program to collect sales tax from all states , that have a sales tax
Will eBay be not far behind , with whining States complaining ,they are losing Billions of tax dollars?

TequilaDave

One of the few (or many, depending upon your pov) benefits of living in Montana....no sales tax

tyler267

As everyone knows, different States have different rules for Sales Tax on coins, so I am assuming Amazon will be collecting based on those rules. I'm pretty sure that if you live in a State that charges a sales tax on coins and you buy coins out of state you are supposed to pay it to the state yourself. In Illinois there is a section on the Individual Income tax return to pay tax on out of state purchases.

Its been awhile but there were companies selling cigarettes on the internet and not charging tax, once some of the states figured out they were losing tax revenue they subpoenaed the sales records and sent tax bills to the residents of their states who bought the cheap tobacco. So I'm guessing the same thing could be done for all internet purchases.

Banknotes122

Every online purchase from any site will be taxed sooner or later. The government needs the extra money to fund outrageous spending.

Coinstartled

Local B&M's of all description have been slammed by the tax advantage given to online sellers. I have little confidence that an online tax will be applied equitably, but the playing field needs to be regraded.

BAJJERFAN

eBay isn't selling their stuff. They are letting YOU use THEIR site to sell YOUR stuff. Same reason that Heritage doesn't send you a 1099-B when you auction items on their site.

djm

I believe that Amazon has a physical presents in every state. Either offices or distribution center.

Banknotes122

@djm said:
I believe that Amazon has a physical presents in every state. Either offices or distribution center.

I don't think Amazon has a presence in every state. I think it was because laws were passed forcing Amazon to collect tax. I would have to double check.

LanceNewmanOCC

.
ebay sent out a message to members a few? months ago and a couple times over the past few/several years with a link to contact our local government in oppose to this bill with a link(s).

i've signed the petition? each time and get a slew of messages from various politicians thereafter.

i will see if i can find the link as i think it was linked also here in another thread(s).

LINK
.

johnny9434

i wonder how many will not be buying on ebay (or amazon at this point) anymore? some things are not taxed and i also wonder what will be taxed or will the whole thing be?

bigjpst

@tyler267 said:
As everyone knows, different States have different rules for Sales Tax on coins, so I am assuming Amazon will be collecting based on those rules.**** I'm pretty sure that if you live in a State that charges a sales tax on coins and you buy coins out of state you are supposed to pay it to the state yourself. In Illinois there is a section on the Individual Income tax return to pay tax on out of state purchases.****

This is the case with most states that collect a Sales Tax. If you purchase an item from an out of state vendor, you are supposed to submit your "Use Tax" to the state. Because virtually nobody does this, the states are forcing people who they can regulate(Amazon, ebay etc) to collect sales tax.

davewesen

Amazon actually has a physical presence in more states than eBay.... besides states, there are cities that have sales tax as well - will they be next?

jwitten

Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

ctf_error_coins

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

You collect tax, you do not take it out of your sale.

jwitten

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

You collect tax, you do not take it out of your sale.

I disagree. Think of it from a buyer's point of view. If I want to pay $100 for a coin, I take tax and shipping into account. If they do not charge tax, I can bid higher. If they charge tax, I bid lower. So basically the coin sells for $100 either way, but the government gets a cut of it if there is tax, and the seller gets more of it if there is no tax.

bestday

@BAJJERFAN said:
eBay isn't selling their stuff. They are letting YOU use THEIR site to sell YOUR stuff. Same reason that Heritage doesn't send you a 1099-B when you auction items on their site.

Just as eBay sells postage for each transaction ,PP takes their juice for each sale .. any taxes added to a sale can be made with little effort

BAJJERFAN

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

The cost to you to collect and remit to the states/cities would be high and for what? It seems like something that would be best for eBay to do. ST would be automatically added to each invoice where it's collectible. It would likely need to be exempted from PP and FV fees. Since it would take a lot of programming on eBay's part, they would need to work out something with the states, etc. to get reimbursed for their added burden.

dbldie55

I have never bought anything from ebay so I guess I would be safe there. Have bought from Amazon (not coins though)

Coinstartled

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

You collect tax, you do not take it out of your sale.

I look at a sales tax as a 50-50% proposition. Half the hit goes to the buyer...the other half to the seller. It may not appear obvious to you at first EOC, with say a 5% tax, but a 20% GST type tax would wipe most of the small sellers out.

jwitten

@Coinstartled said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

You collect tax, you do not take it out of your sale.

I look at a sales tax as a 50-50% proposition. Half the hit goes to the buyer...the other half to the seller. It may not appear obvious to you at first EOC, with say a 5% tax, but a 20% GST type tax would wipe most of the small sellers out.

I think taxes on essentials are more a hit on both seller and buyer. But on items that you are buying for fun, especially true auctions, it is all seller. As a buyer, I decide how much I want to spend on a coin at auction. If I want to spend $100, I don't care how much tax or shipping are, I spend a max of $100 after factoring those in. The seller loses out on the tax, shipping, fees, etc though. That's why if we have to start charging tax, we lose a big cut of the sale.

BAJJERFAN

@jwitten said:

@Coinstartled said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

You collect tax, you do not take it out of your sale.

I look at a sales tax as a 50-50% proposition. Half the hit goes to the buyer...the other half to the seller. It may not appear obvious to you at first EOC, with say a 5% tax, but a 20% GST type tax would wipe most of the small sellers out.

I think taxes on essentials are more a hit on both seller and buyer. But on items that you are buying for fun, especially true auctions, it is all seller. As a buyer, I decide how much I want to spend on a coin at auction. If I want to spend $100, I don't care how much tax or shipping are, I spend a max of $100 after factoring those in. The seller loses out on the tax, shipping, fees, etc though. That's why if we have to start charging tax, we lose a big cut of the sale.

Except you're assuming that you'll almost always get the coin for the $100 or whatever your max bid is.

jwitten

@BAJJERFAN said:

@jwitten said:

@Coinstartled said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

You collect tax, you do not take it out of your sale.

I look at a sales tax as a 50-50% proposition. Half the hit goes to the buyer...the other half to the seller. It may not appear obvious to you at first EOC, with say a 5% tax, but a 20% GST type tax would wipe most of the small sellers out.

I think taxes on essentials are more a hit on both seller and buyer. But on items that you are buying for fun, especially true auctions, it is all seller. As a buyer, I decide how much I want to spend on a coin at auction. If I want to spend $100, I don't care how much tax or shipping are, I spend a max of $100 after factoring those in. The seller loses out on the tax, shipping, fees, etc though. That's why if we have to start charging tax, we lose a big cut of the sale.

Except you're assuming that you'll almost always get the coin for the $100 or whatever your max bid is.

No, not at all. I am assuming that whoever wins the auction will be factoring in the price of the tax as well. If my max price is $100, but someone else's was $150, I would imagine they factored in the total cost (shipping, tax, etc) and bid their max based on that. So seller still loses profit.

davewesen

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

Or the opportunity for someone for someone to get rich starting a tagalong company like PAYPAL for small internet sales operations.

Coinstartled

@jwitten said:

@Coinstartled said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

You collect tax, you do not take it out of your sale.

I look at a sales tax as a 50-50% proposition. Half the hit goes to the buyer...the other half to the seller. It may not appear obvious to you at first EOC, with say a 5% tax, but a 20% GST type tax would wipe most of the small sellers out.

I think taxes on essentials are more a hit on both seller and buyer. But on items that you are buying for fun, especially true auctions, it is all seller. As a buyer, I decide how much I want to spend on a coin at auction. If I want to spend $100, I don't care how much tax or shipping are, I spend a max of $100 after factoring those in. The seller loses out on the tax, shipping, fees, etc though. That's why if we have to start charging tax, we lose a big cut of the sale.

Let's say that a 10% is applied to the sale of $100 widget coins. All the buyers think like you and bid only $90 for said widget coin at auction.

As noted, coins are non essential so sellers of said coins begin to pull back on selling off the widgets as the prices realized are not acceptable. With less coins on the market demand picks up for the available lots and the prices rise.

As evidence that sellers pull back against declining prices, look at the Heritage FUN sale. Prices realized in 2005 approached $100,000,000. I believe the 2017 sale realized less than half that amount.

stman

Many want to be in business, or call themselves a business till they don't.

jwitten

@Coinstartled said:

@jwitten said:

@Coinstartled said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

You collect tax, you do not take it out of your sale.

I look at a sales tax as a 50-50% proposition. Half the hit goes to the buyer...the other half to the seller. It may not appear obvious to you at first EOC, with say a 5% tax, but a 20% GST type tax would wipe most of the small sellers out.

I think taxes on essentials are more a hit on both seller and buyer. But on items that you are buying for fun, especially true auctions, it is all seller. As a buyer, I decide how much I want to spend on a coin at auction. If I want to spend $100, I don't care how much tax or shipping are, I spend a max of $100 after factoring those in. The seller loses out on the tax, shipping, fees, etc though. That's why if we have to start charging tax, we lose a big cut of the sale.

Let's say that a 10% is applied to the sale of $100 widget coins. All the buyers think like you and bid only $90 for said widget coin at auction.

As noted, coins are non essential so sellers of said coins begin to pull back on selling off the widgets as the prices realized are not acceptable. With less coins on the market demand picks up for the available lots and the prices rise.

As evidence that sellers pull back against declining prices, look at the Heritage FUN sale. Prices realized in 2005 approached $100,000,000. I believe the 2017 sale realized less than half that amount.

So you think sales tax to all states on ebay would increase coin prices? I doubt it. If so, how long would it take? When will current prices start going up because of less market availability?

Coinstartled

If I was Kreskin, I would be betting on the Final four.

BAJJERFAN

@jwitten said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

@jwitten said:

@Coinstartled said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

You collect tax, you do not take it out of your sale.

I look at a sales tax as a 50-50% proposition. Half the hit goes to the buyer...the other half to the seller. It may not appear obvious to you at first EOC, with say a 5% tax, but a 20% GST type tax would wipe most of the small sellers out.

I think taxes on essentials are more a hit on both seller and buyer. But on items that you are buying for fun, especially true auctions, it is all seller. As a buyer, I decide how much I want to spend on a coin at auction. If I want to spend $100, I don't care how much tax or shipping are, I spend a max of $100 after factoring those in. The seller loses out on the tax, shipping, fees, etc though. That's why if we have to start charging tax, we lose a big cut of the sale.

Except you're assuming that you'll almost always get the coin for the $100 or whatever your max bid is.

No, not at all. I am assuming that whoever wins the auction will be factoring in the price of the tax as well. If my max price is $100, but someone else's was $150, I would imagine they factored in the total cost (shipping, tax, etc) and bid their max based on that. So seller still loses profit.

If it gets to the point where a seller's $100 coin nets him a lousy $50 after all fees and expenses, the seller with either add a reserve or quit selling. I believe that you overestimate how many bidders actually use that bidding/buying approach.

jwitten

@BAJJERFAN said:

@jwitten said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

@jwitten said:

@Coinstartled said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

You collect tax, you do not take it out of your sale.

I look at a sales tax as a 50-50% proposition. Half the hit goes to the buyer...the other half to the seller. It may not appear obvious to you at first EOC, with say a 5% tax, but a 20% GST type tax would wipe most of the small sellers out.

I think taxes on essentials are more a hit on both seller and buyer. But on items that you are buying for fun, especially true auctions, it is all seller. As a buyer, I decide how much I want to spend on a coin at auction. If I want to spend $100, I don't care how much tax or shipping are, I spend a max of $100 after factoring those in. The seller loses out on the tax, shipping, fees, etc though. That's why if we have to start charging tax, we lose a big cut of the sale.

Except you're assuming that you'll almost always get the coin for the $100 or whatever your max bid is.

No, not at all. I am assuming that whoever wins the auction will be factoring in the price of the tax as well. If my max price is $100, but someone else's was $150, I would imagine they factored in the total cost (shipping, tax, etc) and bid their max based on that. So seller still loses profit.

If it gets to the point where a seller's $100 coin nets him a lousy $50 after all fees and expenses, the seller with either add a reserve or quit selling. I believe that you overestimate how many bidders actually use that bidding/buying approach.

What do most buyers do? Just bid on something without having a set price in mind? Seems like a dangerous way to collect to me. And yes, I agree, the more ebay, paypal, and USPS increase their rates, and especially if you add tax into it, the harder it is for a seller to make a profit. What is a good profit percentage to make on a sale? If you factor in losing an extra 5%-10% on each sale... ouch!

davewesen

@BAJJERFAN said:

No, not at all. I am assuming that whoever wins the auction will be factoring in the price of the tax as well. If my max price is $100, but someone else's was $150, I would imagine they factored in the total cost (shipping, tax, etc) and bid their max based on that. So seller still loses profit.

If it gets to the point where a seller's $100 coin nets him a lousy $50 after all fees and expenses, the seller with either add a reserve or quit selling. I believe that you overestimate how many bidders actually use that bidding/buying approach.

You must be doing well, many $100 coins are selling for $30-40 at auction

Coinstartled

@davewesen said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

No, not at all. I am assuming that whoever wins the auction will be factoring in the price of the tax as well. If my max price is $100, but someone else's was $150, I would imagine they factored in the total cost (shipping, tax, etc) and bid their max based on that. So seller still loses profit.

If it gets to the point where a seller's $100 coin nets him a lousy $50 after all fees and expenses, the seller with either add a reserve or quit selling. I believe that you overestimate how many bidders actually use that bidding/buying approach.

You must be doing well, many $100 coins are selling for $30-40 at auction

Well then they are actually $30 and $40 coins.

oreville

There are programs that now compute sales tax to 4000 zip codes on average in every state but the programs can be expensive. Each state are generally not helpful. The feds lost their chance to collect a national sales tax and share some of the revenues with each state and simplify the problem.

Manorcourtman

I don't care either way on state sales tax. But don't ask me to collect it. eBay does nothing these days other than collect fees from me. They can figure it out and collect it from buyers.

ms70

@djm said:
I believe that Amazon has a physical presents in every state. Either offices or distribution center.

I think this has quite a bit to do with it.

BAJJERFAN

@davewesen said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

No, not at all. I am assuming that whoever wins the auction will be factoring in the price of the tax as well. If my max price is $100, but someone else's was $150, I would imagine they factored in the total cost (shipping, tax, etc) and bid their max based on that. So seller still loses profit.

If it gets to the point where a seller's $100 coin nets him a lousy $50 after all fees and expenses, the seller with either add a reserve or quit selling. I believe that you overestimate how many bidders actually use that bidding/buying approach.

You must be doing well, many $100 coins are selling for $30-40 at auction

Is that before or after fees? If they are selling that cheaply, they they aren't $100 coins in the current market.

FWIW, I haven't sold anything on eBay since Moby Dick was a minnow.

cameonut2011

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

You collect tax, you do not take it out of your sale.

Perhaps theoretically, but not practically. All price adjustments affect the buyer's final offer and thus the seller's profit. The concept is the same reason that a "buyer's fee" at auction is really paid by the seller.

cameonut2011

@jwitten said:

@Coinstartled said:

@jwitten said:

@Coinstartled said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jwitten said:
Collecting tax on every item shipped to every customer would put many businesses OUT of business, probably me included. I do not have a big enough profit margin to be able to afford that extra cut to be taken out.

You collect tax, you do not take it out of your sale.

I look at a sales tax as a 50-50% proposition. Half the hit goes to the buyer...the other half to the seller. It may not appear obvious to you at first EOC, with say a 5% tax, but a 20% GST type tax would wipe most of the small sellers out.

I think taxes on essentials are more a hit on both seller and buyer. But on items that you are buying for fun, especially true auctions, it is all seller. As a buyer, I decide how much I want to spend on a coin at auction. If I want to spend $100, I don't care how much tax or shipping are, I spend a max of $100 after factoring those in. The seller loses out on the tax, shipping, fees, etc though. That's why if we have to start charging tax, we lose a big cut of the sale.

Let's say that a 10% is applied to the sale of $100 widget coins. All the buyers think like you and bid only $90 for said widget coin at auction.

As noted, coins are non essential so sellers of said coins begin to pull back on selling off the widgets as the prices realized are not acceptable. With less coins on the market demand picks up for the available lots and the prices rise.

As evidence that sellers pull back against declining prices, look at the Heritage FUN sale. Prices realized in 2005 approached $100,000,000. I believe the 2017 sale realized less than half that amount.

So you think sales tax to all states on ebay would increase coin prices? I doubt it. If so, how long would it take? When will current prices start going up because of less market availability?

I agree with you. Widgets are a dime a dozen, and the buyers will continue to be cheap until they can find a seller that is looking to move the item and will eat the costs.

Davideo

@djm said:
I believe that Amazon has a physical presents in every state. Either offices or distribution center.

No, they do not. At least in Wyoming they do not have a physical presence, but agreed to a deal with the legislature to collect and submit sales tax. I still haven't figured out their angle regarding why they would do so.

ghigh

@dbldie55 said:
I have never bought anything from ebay so I guess I would be safe there. Have bought from Amazon (not coins though)

wow

RichieURich

Here is my suggested solution to this issue:

The "Marketplace Fairness Act" seeks to have every vendor in interstate commerce charge sales tax based on the buyer's place of residence, could well have been entitled "The Law Requiring You to Report Sales and Pay Tax to Over 7,500 Municipalities, Any of Which Can Audit You If They Don't Like Your Numbers". Here is my simple solution: If I go into a store and buy something, no one in the store asks me where I reside, the store just charges the sales tax where the store is located. Why can't we do that for online sales, too? This would accomplish the task, without requiring a huge amount of additional administrative effort!

ricko

If sellers on ebay attempt to collect sales tax (and I have seen a few... figure it was their attempt to increase profit) I will just cancel the sale.... My money, my choice.... no added fees after deal is set - period, exclamation point and done. Cheers, RickO

topstuf

It's too bad no one ever got so fed up with taxes that they got rid of the taxing authorities.

Yep. Really too bad.

Jinx86

So my State, North Dakota, does not collect taxes on coins and precious metals anyways. Does anything really change for me?

BAJJERFAN

@Jinx86 said:
So my State, North Dakota, does not collect taxes on coins and precious metals anyways. Does anything really change for me?

If you buy taxable items on eBay it could. There's lots of stuff there besides those things.

Jinx86

@BAJJERFAN said:

@Jinx86 said:
So my State, North Dakota, does not collect taxes on coins and precious metals anyways. Does anything really change for me?

If you buy taxable items on eBay it could. There's lots of stuff there besides those things.

Good point. Still tax or no tax, most people will continue to use the internet for many purchases based on convenience and for those "hard to find items".

bronco2078

I will make it a point to defraud all 50 states of the sales tax on my sales and or purchases and then the ball is in their court.
Upon further reflection I'll go with a 49 state strategy . I'll pay where I live the rest can fight to extradite me.

TwoSides2aCoin

Show me the coin. I'll tell you the tax on it.

logger7

So maybe more buyers will open DBA sales and use tax permits to avoid it? Not hard to open up as a coin business person. In states that taxed precious metals business was suppressed.

tyler267

I know of some, but how many States charge Sales or Use Taxon coins? Is it common?

Azurescens

What will the crusty scheisters do now??

BAJJERFAN

@RichieURich said:
Here is my suggested solution to this issue:

The "Marketplace Fairness Act" seeks to have every vendor in interstate commerce charge sales tax based on the buyer's place of residence, could well have been entitled "The Law Requiring You to Report Sales and Pay Tax to Over 7,500 Municipalities, Any of Which Can Audit You If They Don't Like Your Numbers". Here is my simple solution: If I go into a store and buy something, no one in the store asks me where I reside, the store just charges the sales tax where the store is located. Why can't we do that for online sales, too? This would accomplish the task, without requiring a huge amount of additional administrative effort!

If eBay ends up collecting and remitting the tax, why would any state go to the effort to audit you?