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I sure would like to participate in this "down market!"
BillJones
Posts: 33,481 ✭✭✭✭✭
It's happening again. I bid higher than "Coin Facts prices," higher than previous auction results, higher than any numberes I find from any source, and still I get nothing. I'm not bidding on finest know or "POP 1" coins. I not bidding on coins that have CAC stickers.
I tell you guys. If you decide to consign something to auction, just have me bid on it. You will get a record price for sure.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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Are you shil bidding against yourself?
Eventually you should win one.
You have an eye for the "good stuff" and that is what the market wants and will continue to want.
Opp! shold not post on this not closed
I might take you up on that and then we can both fend off the "shill bidder" complaints!
Actually, I know its a down market when I sell.
An Up Market, when I buy.
The name is LEE!
The only thing worse is winning it and then the next 3 sell for $0.50 on the dollar after that point
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Without knowing the facts, I'm going to guess you've been bidding on HA coins. I've been watching and sniping their auctions for years and have never before seen such a frenzy for CAC and old slabbed coins before. The funny thing is that I'd bet dollars to donuts that every undergraded old slabbed coin has long since been broken out and resubmitted and that any remaining rattlers or soap slabs that doesn't have a CAC sticker on it is properly or over graded.
Heck, I bid strong on a coin and was outbid over a week ago.
Joseph J. Singleton - First Superintendent of the U.S. Branch Mint in Dahlonega Georgia
Findley Ridge Collection
About Findley Ridge
No, I've been bidding on some recently slabbed coins, and the old ones. I bid just over the "Coin Facts" amount for an AU 1835 quarter eagle that had been lightly cleaned, but not marked as such. It was okay, not great and would never get a CAC sticker. It was also in the "after auction" of the HA FUN auction. I still didn't get it.
It's like it was in the 1970s when I attended a local club meeting auction. Everytime I bid there are two or three guys who would bid just because I was bidding. And I was just 25 year old kid.
No down market for the coins I want.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
I hear ya, Bill. The price of plastic is going up as well! Wish I could get plastic for 50c on the $1.
Thank goodness you're not bidding on what I like because I am getting some great deals over the past month. On the other hand, my coins cost about $20 on average and I'm thinking you're bidding in the deeper end of the pool
I never ever ever get a coin for sheet. Usually pay at least a multiple of two or more.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
The coins I generally want are all down. Thing is, I'm not sure they won't go down even more from here.
I'm in the same boat. Just mind numbing. It's like I am being cyber stalked. But I have been disciplined. I am not chasing. I just walk away. It is painful though, especially when you try to sell something similar and can't get interest at 80% of HA prices.
Bill, you keep getting beat so are you pricing it wrong ? Or afraid the market is topping for what you want? What keeps you from bidding higher? There are certain things I will not chase because I am a little afraid I might win and then it goes against my thought process.
If you were going after a few rare coins some deep pockets want I can see not chasing to the finish line but you seem to be talking slightly better than widgets?
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Jump in..............bid, bid, bid............but set your own limits
JMO
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Maybe it is an UP market and nobody told us
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Yep. Dang.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I was outbid on all six Gobrecht dollars that I wanted tonight
mark> @tradedollarnut said:
Piker.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
LOL .. Alert .............market topping !!!!! ....fits in nicely with a large stock market decline
Maybe Eliasberg Jr. Jr. needed a few for his set???
Well, I've never been outbid on any of the Gobrecht dollars that I've tried to win at auction.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
You wouldn't had lost if you really wanted those coins unless that was all you had in the bank. lol
Building a house. Still...more than $150k as the underbidder three times. Sheesh!
In my pre dealer days, when I was buying a lot of early U.S. type coins (1793 to 1807), my rule of thumb was to pay the next grade up on the sheet. In other words if it was an AU, I would pay up to the MS-60 price. If was VF, which was lowerst grade I'd consider, I'd pay close to EF if it was really nice. That seemed to work pretty well.
I've always been leery about about two or more times the Gray Sheet price. I saw that market for about everything decent circa 1979, and everyone who bought into that got creamed when the merry-go-round stopped cira 1980.
I knew a few guys who formed a coin dealer partnership (They called it "Lie, Cheat and Steal" of all things) who were about my age. They $20,000 for an original 1910 Proof set, cent to half dollar. They were lucky to bail out at $12,000. The price kept going down until it hit 5 or 6 thousand.
BTW "Lie, Cheat and Steal" got one ad in "Coin World" with that name on it. The logo featured a group of the prisoners in striped suits counting coins in a jail cell. The other dealers raised holly hell about that, and they were never allowed to use that name in their ads again.
I think rainbowroosie's comment was at least partly tongue-In-cheek as he collects beautifully toned coins. I do not know if he also meant paying large premiums for untoned pieces.
I agree with your observations. Many coins I try to win at auction have been selling for record prices. I consider it a huge win (and/or wonder if I made a mistake) when I can buy one for what seems like a reasonable dealer ask price. That said, we are both very picky so it isn't too surprising we should be paying strong money for really PQ coins.
It's just not PQ coins that are selling for strong premiums. Here is the 1835 quarter eagle I didn't get in the last FUN sale. At the time my bid was higher than the "Coins Facts" number.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/classic-quarter-eagles/quarter-eagles/1835-2-1-2-au55-pcgs-pcgs-population-21-81-ngc-census-51-148-mintage-131-402/a/1251-10763.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
Looks like the Price Guide might just be low for that one. The coin before yours sold for over $1800 (although it did have a sticker).
I looked at that piece personally. It had been lightly cleaned, but I found it to be acceptable. I don't think that it will ever get a sticker.
I wonder when those guys broke up because I was frequently dealing with one of them in 1988 when he was working for a major retailer out of Maryland (later who was nabbed by the Feds and the business shutdown). They were together somewhere in the period of 1985-1987. I can't imagine where they could have bought a gem 1910 original proof set and saw it go down in value during that period as prices were only generally rising into 1988 with a final moon shot in 1989. And one of those 3 guys was one of the best graders out there in the 1986-1990 period. I recall bidding on a monstrous gem original proof set at Stacks in 1983/1984 and getting out bid at the $21K level by Numismatic Professionals Inc. (Miller and Tracey). The coins in that set (PF66's at that time) probably climbed to approx $40K by 1989. The Barber half alone from that set (now a 68) is probably $15K by itself....the Morgan a lot more.
There was a group of local dealers that a banded together in the early days of eBay two bit on each other's auctions they got caught and shut down my eBay. There's some nice folks out there my local coin club that I just joined has tougher requirements for its members to abide by then most dealers abide by
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
No, they bought this set a little less than 10 years BEFORE that. It's been a little less than 40 years since I've seen that set, but here goes. It was one of those original sets that had been together since it was issued, probably stored in mint tissue paper. The silver coins were toned blue and had a uniform look, but they were a litttle dull to my eye. I had a similar 1909 Proof set at the same time, and the mirrors were better on that set. I sold it when I was putting together the down payment for my first home.
As for where they ended up, only one is still active in coins. One moved on to other things and the third one sadly passed on several years ago. There may have a fourth partner who supplied some of the money, but I have not heard about him for many years.