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Professional dealers, quick question:
Wabbit2313
Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
What are you paying for green stickered CAC coins in relation to greysheet? Do you pay bid? Higher than bid? I am not talking one of a kind or toners. Just honest CAC coins like MS 65 or 66 common Morgan's, Walkers, etc. or the like.
So if I was to bring 100 common date MS-65 CAC Morgans to a show, what would you pay? Thanks!
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Before or after debating all the merits of CAC?
I have asked the same question on these boards. But, I am still not sure I was answered. I was told that greysheet bids are for cac stickered coins........And then all hell broke loose.... Great question!!!
When I was monitoring common date MS65/66 Morgan dollar prices on GC about 9-12 months ago, the stickers would typically fetch a premium of 10-30%....with 10-15% probably the norm. If a generic 65 coin was say $130, a stickered one with decent eye appeal was bringing $140-$155 typically. What was also clear was that an MS65 with a sticker and eye appeal, and clearly higher end for the grade could bring up to $165-$200. The bidders were looking past the assigned grades to figure out where the coin stands in the 65.0 to 65.9 grading continuum. On coins brought to the vast majority of dealers, they can't get past the "bid" value for the assigned grade.
If you brought 100 MS65 CAC pieces to a show, I'd probably pay a sliding scale for the quality of each MS65. No doubt some would be average, others above average, and some way above average. Most dealers would probably just pay around "bid" with a possible $5-$10 premium for the stickers. The easiest way is to buy the deal $5 to $10 under what you can sell the group for.....essentially a flip of the deal while making $500-$1000 on it. I'd be comfortable paying a $10 premium for ok stickered MS65's....about +8% at current prices.
So pay $12 to get the sticker and pocket 5$ when you sell it? Scratch tickets are a better investment than that
Looking at GC recent auction results it looks like it's $150+ for generic 65's with CAC and sub $130 for generic 65's non CAC.
So based on those result, the increase in sales price exceeds the sticker cost.
Interesting thoughts, but I want to know what a real dealer, who attends all the big shows, will pay for them.
If I bring 50 1879-S and 50 1880-S MS65 Morgans, PCGS and CAC, what will you buy them for per coin?
My end game is what is the real cost of selling these via auction or eBay vs just getting rid of the whole works, for cash in some cases, and be done with it!
I'd shop them around the show. I would dread listing all of those on ebay!
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PS, do any dealers actually pay bid for non CAC coins in PCGS holders. (Common dates)
At a show in Illinois (Tinley Park), there was one dealer who had a large table and paid bid for some common PCGS Franklins.
In one local coin store, I was offered 20% under bid for a non CAC common Morgan. In another, the dealer passed on the coin (no offer). A third paid about 15% under for a 1921-D in NGC MS 65 (and mentioned he couldn't go higher unless it had a CAC sticker).
I have not tried selling any CAC coins to a dealer yet, so I can't speak on that part.
I pay 80-90 pct of CDN bid. I consider generics Dollars and Walkers with CAC sticker irrelavent. Somebody paid good money getting these stickered lol?
I pay based on what the coin looks like - sticker means nothing if I don't like the coin. If u want to put stickers on coins it's your money your hobby but I will not pay u a premium necessarily just bc it has a sticker. But if it's an A coin I would feel compelled to if one I really wanted. It's tough when selling getting a premium on a stickered coin especially if it's less than $500. Many buyers see the sticker as simply another opinion, know how to grade, know how to examine a coin and refuse to pay anything beyond the grade on the holder. So with these people somebody is blowing in the wind if they think the sticker automatically increases the price.
Sadly many think they can just walk up to a dealers table and he is going to be the bank for their coins.
If I had a lot of generic Dollars I was going to blowout I would put one group in my eBay store at cdn bid plus 15 percent and the other group in auction starting at Bluesheet and 95 pct bid and c what happens. My view in shopping around on the bourse - many will pull out their Bluesheet and offer you that if even that much.
But give it a shot in Shopping them around at a show who knows some guy may be looking for some green for his display case.
One of the major sources of data for the Grey Sheet is CAC Posted prices. The Grey Sheet price is what JA will pay for a coin that he needs/wants. Keep in mind that he is buying it to resell it. Per the grade Sheet "ASK" is plus 10%.
Should we be paying more?
No why should they as they can get these below bid in GC or eBay auctions. But cc material I probably would as there is more competition out there seeking these.
Thanks Cougar. Do you set up at all the major shows?
If I don't need them I don't buy them!
Why should I ??
Any answers!
$13.50 now
Why in the world would anyone sell you a CAC generic at 80-90% of bid when CAC will pay 100% of bid? That seems incredibly stupid to me. I try to avoid generics period.
Some do. Sometimes a lot more than what a generic CAC coin will bring in the same grade. A lot depends on strike, toning, whether few marks or not, old holders, etc. Just because JA doesn't sticker an ogh or ratter with some nice color doesn't mean it won't fetch a 20-50% premium. CAC rejects Morgans for numerous issues that the end users don't really care about. You see it all the time on GC.....at shows too. Just because Cougar doesn't pay up for some stuff doesn't mean you can't find others that will. Case in point, I picked up a non-stickered PCGS 66 common Morgan with some interesting half crescent toning at GC a few months back. Paid over bid. Sold that this past weekend to another dealer for $285 or approx 30-50% over current bid levels. And he said he had a customer for that in the $350-$375 range. While the coin had B+ toning, a fingerprint was part of it and the cheek had a decent scuff on it....tossing it out of solid for the grade quality imo. I'm sure JA didn't like the scuff or the toning. Really doesn't matter though. What he didn't like, myself an others were fine with.
I pay for the coin.... not the sticker.... That being said, if the coin I am interested in, has a sticker, I understand that will be factored into the price - and if I like the coin, I will pay the price. Cheers, RickO
So the answer so far is it depends on the coin. And the range dealers will pay for 100 generic CAC stickered common date morgans at a big coin show is 80% of CND bid to $10 bucks over CND bid again depending on the coin...
I will pay whatever it costs, if I like AND need the coin enough. I really do not care what the GS says, or if it is stickered. Anyone that sticks to GS or other price guides is for sure missing opportunities to own and trade in nice coins.
What some tend to forget is that Price guides are AVERAGE prices, not TOP prices. Imagine how that price guide would even get its data? I almost always use auction prices anyway, and really do save GS for the widgets as they come through.
I am not even sure a legit major show dealer has even chimed in here.
I kind of doubt the wholesale dealers, who would be interested in buying hundreds of generic Morgans, would care whether they are stickered. They probably don't even care if they are PCGS or NGC. I imagine they would make an offer sight unseen, since these are "widgets".
Of course you'll need a wholesale dealer to chime in. I don't think that many of them participate here.
I did a quick look up on APMEX and the buy price for bulk PCGS or NGC 65's is the same. If they don't care about this distinction I doubt they'd care about the sticker.
I would sell the nonstickered to the wholesalers and the stickered ones to the smaller collector-oriented dealers.
I plead the 5th.