The Future of US Coin Collecting Is NOT Dying.

OwenSeymour

(First thread I've made!)
I just wanted to voice this somewhere where people would care. You often hear from collectors & dealers that the collectors of US coins are quickly diminishing, and perhaps even that they will soon be an extinct breed. This is all but true. I am a 19 year old coin dealer, I operate strictly on the Internet (ebay & instagram) as well as fulfilling want lists. This is my career, and I can absolutely assure you coin collecting is THRIVING. Youth often have no interests in going to B&M coin shops/shows. As soon as they run into a grumpy dealer or employee they're turned off- and start using the Internet to acquire coins. On instagram I have a following of over 6,000 collectors, hundreds of which are consistent customers & friends. Almost all of these 6000 followers are 12-21. There is a massive web of young dealers, 25 and under, operating all over the US.
If you judge the health of coin collecting by the attendance of youth at coin shows or coin shops, it will appear to be dying, or even dead. But if you judge the health of coin collecting by the presence of numismatic related Internet facilities such as instagrams, Facebook pages, Web page coin stores, and ebay - it is as alive as ever.
There are tens of thousands of active young coin collectors, they just choose to engage with other numismatists on the Internet.
(I apologize in advance for any grammatical errors - this was posted via mobile so cut me some slack )

DoubleEagle59

You bring up many interesting points.

I only know coin shows and being 57 years of age, I can tell you I'm probably right in the large group of collectors in attendance and sometimes I even feel like the 'young' one.

Justacommeman

Sincere best wishes on your career choice. Love to see Young Turks involved in this hobby.

Question what is your niche coin wise?

m

ShadyDave

I agree, there are alternate venues for coin collectors whether they are old or young: instagram, facebook, reddit, a forum like this and youtube too! Feel free to post your Instagram to show all the people unfamiliar with it, what it is.

OwenSeymour

@Justacommeman said:
Sincere best wishes on your career choice. Love to see Young Turks involved in this hobby.

Question what is your niche coin wise?

m

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it! March has been my best month in business by far.
I like too many series to narrow it down. I don't have a personal collection, but of course my inventory is geared toward my personal interests. I love early large cents, early half dollars, walking liberty halves, mercurys, and Franklins. Beautiful Toning is always awesome

OwenSeymour

@ShadyDave said:
I agree, there are alternate venues for coin collectors whether they are old or young: instagram, facebook, reddit, a forum like this and youtube too! Feel free to post your Instagram to show all the people unfamiliar with it, what it is.

My instagram is @pa_coins. Anybody can Google search "instagram @pa_coins" and pull up my page even if they don't have an account! I eagerly invite everybody to make a page, it's very easy. I would be glad to give everyone a shout out to my followers to kick start their involvement

OwenSeymour

@DoubleEagle59 said:
You bring up many interesting points.

I only know coin shows and being 57 years of age, I can tell you I'm probably right in the large group of collectors in attendance and sometimes I even feel like the 'young' one.

I promise they're out there!!

sparky64

I like your enthusiasm and look forward to your insight.

logger7

Agreed.

Unknown

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7Jaguars

I like your enthusiasm! However, neither my son or ANY of his friends or ANYONE else in his school has the slightest interest in coins (despite my best efforts). Nor are any of the kids that come through my fairly busy office despite giving away what I thought attractive quarters and even several rolls of the modern buffalo nickels.

I think the point is that though there are a few such as yourself, it doesn't seem a commonplace occupancy. Cheers to you!

hchcoin

Great first thread. Love your Instagram page.

Justacommeman

Another question. Where do you get your inventory?

M

OwenSeymour

@Justacommeman said:
Another question. Where do you get your inventory?

M

I should have clarified this in the original post. I said I operate strictly on the Internet but was referring to sales when I said that. I travel all over the US mainly the east coast, shopping at B&M as well as shows.

OwenSeymour

@hchcoin said:
Great first thread. Love your Instagram page.

Thank you!

JJSingleton

Nice post Owen. You need to just ignore all these grumpy old men around here (me included). I am happy to hear there just might be a youth movement in numismatics that is off us old farts radar screen. Best of luck to your success.

OwenSeymour

@7Jaguars said:
I like your enthusiasm! However, neither my son or ANY of his friends or ANYONE else in his school has the slightest interest in coins (despite my best efforts). Nor are any of the kids that come through my fairly busy office despite giving away what I thought attractive quarters and even several rolls of the modern buffalo nickels.

I think the point is that though there are a few such as yourself, it doesn't seem a commonplace occupancy. Cheers to you!

Just explaining my experience and what can be concluded from it. My customers, and young collectors who I haven't done business with also are the bright future of a healthy hobby . Everyday I engage with dozens or hundreds of teenagers, if that isn't a sign of a healthy hobby I'm not sure what is

OwenSeymour

. > @JJSingleton said:

Nice post Owen. You need to just ignore all these grumpy old men around here (me included). I am happy to hear there just might be a youth movement in numismatics that is off us old farts radar screen. Best of luck to your success.

Haha I'll do my best . Thanks!

Aspie_Rocco

Good for you OP! Glad to see it's possible for younger folks to make it somewhere on the coin business!
I am 36 and trying to transition from collector to collector/dealer. My Niche is Jefferson nickels. I have too much energy for coins to do internet only anymore.
Lol, I wish I could apprentice as a coin dealer, like I did as an electrician as a teenager.

I have NEVER been to a coin show. I tried this weekend but it was cancelled. I've been collecting for years and made ranks in the registry not ever having met many dealers.
Most of my collection is from eBay or scattered B&M shops, or personal pcgs submissions.
I met a charismatic young dealer in Las Vegas this weekend, under 30, at Archangel coins, who explained a great deal about dealing to me.
The only dealer I have known for a few years is maybe in his 40s?

I hope to meet more of the grouchy old guys they sound like fun and interesting characters. Seriously. They way I see things I can learn something from anyone either about coins or life.

I have recently learned that any of my social awkwardness or unease I normally deal with completely evaporates when discussing numismatics with anyone who is also interested in the subject.

I have recently had several lengthy conversations in B&M stores.
I volunteer to be a listener to any old timers who are willing to talk on and on about coins and such.

TonerGuy

Okay so I have to ask... as for your younger collectors... 12-21 - what are they buying or are interested in ?

yosclimber

Thanks for sharing.
It looks like you buy and sell on ebay (bids start at $5),
and post photos of new listings on instagram.
This seems like a good use of instagram - you can get the photos out to peoples' smartphones without them having to browse auctions.

It looks like you are buying more than selling on ebay at present,
which is understandable because you need to build an inventory to sell.
It seems natural for you to feel positive about the financial rewards of working as an internet dealer,
since you are investing in inventory with hopes of making profits.
However, I think it may be premature to conclude your niche of the market is booming,
because it appears you have not been doing this for long enough to demonstrate stable profits.
Judging from what you've sold in recent months on ebay, it doesn't look like the income compares with a regular job,
and of course there is a cost basis for each sale that I don't observe.
I hope this doesn't seem too harsh - just a friendly observer here.

The people who have the most successful careers in this industry are the people who have exceptional grading skills.
So they can quickly evaluate and purchase undergraded coins that are in demand,
get them into an upgraded slab and sell them for a profit.

Numiven

Second this. On what basis are you saying the hobby is not dying.

I am wondering, what are anf for how much do these 12-21 yo able to buy. When i was 12, i had not much money, it was all daddys $$.

OwenSeymour

@yosclimber said:
Thanks for sharing.
It looks like you buy and sell on ebay (bids start at $5),
and post photos of new listings on instagram.
This seems like a good use of instagram - you can get the photos out to peoples' smartphones without them having to browse auctions.

It looks like you are buying more than selling on ebay at present,
which is understandable because you need to build an inventory to sell.
It seems natural for you to feel positive about the financial rewards of working as an internet dealer,
since you are investing in inventory with hopes of making profits.
However, I think it may be premature to conclude your niche of the market is booming,
because it appears you have not been doing this for long enough to demonstrate stable profits.
Judging from what you've sold in recent months on ebay, it doesn't look like the income compares with a regular job,
and of course there is a cost basis for each sale that I don't observe.
I hope this doesn't seem too harsh - just a friendly observer here.

The people who have the most successful careers in this industry are the people who have exceptional grading skills.
So they can quickly evaluate and purchase undergraded coins that are in demand,
get them into an upgraded slab and sell them for a profit.

Sorry but you're wildly mistaken. Ebay is where I do the least of my business. Most of business is centered around fulfilling want lists for both dealers and collectors. I'd say 1-3% of business is done through ebay. I find it funny you mention cracking, I've learned from some of the best in the industry and have successfully cracked & upgraded hundreds of coins. Sending 280 coins to PCGS this week after getting back 95 last week. I've been lucky enough to have been mentored by extremely knowledgeable individuals such as the Hipps family as well as Steve Feltner (PCGS Grader). I can absolutely assure you I'm proficient in grading.

OwenSeymour

@yosclimber said:
Thanks for sharing.
It looks like you buy and sell on ebay (bids start at $5),
and post photos of new listings on instagram.
This seems like a good use of instagram - you can get the photos out to peoples' smartphones without them having to browse auctions.

It looks like you are buying more than selling on ebay at present,
which is understandable because you need to build an inventory to sell.
It seems natural for you to feel positive about the financial rewards of working as an internet dealer,
since you are investing in inventory with hopes of making profits.
However, I think it may be premature to conclude your niche of the market is booming,
because it appears you have not been doing this for long enough to demonstrate stable profits.
Judging from what you've sold in recent months on ebay, it doesn't look like the income compares with a regular job,
and of course there is a cost basis for each sale that I don't observe.
I hope this doesn't seem too harsh - just a friendly observer here.

The people who have the most successful careers in this industry are the people who have exceptional grading skills.
So they can quickly evaluate and purchase undergraded coins that are in demand,
get them into an upgraded slab and sell them for a profit.

Also I think you misunderstood. I've been buying and selling for 3 years now. I grew up dirt poor and raised funds to start a business by worked a min wage job in high school. Before I gradated HS I already purchased a new car and was traveling all over the US while getting out of school early everyday on entrepreneural leave. This isnt a dream, luck, or jumping the gun. I am happy to say dealing coins has yielded a very healthy income to me.

OwenSeymour

@Numiven said:
Second this. On what basis are you saying the hobby is not dying.

I am wondering, what are anf for how much do these 12-21 yo able to buy. When i was 12, i had not much money, it was all daddys $$.

If thousands of 12-21 yo actively buying, selling, collecting, displaying coins all over the Internet isn't a sign to you there's nothing I can do to show you otherwise. Some kids spend $100/month some spend 1-5k / month. I haven't asked where they get money yet.

OwenSeymour

@TonerGuy said:
Okay so I have to ask... as for your younger collectors... 12-21 - what are they buying or are interested in ?

I believe I answered this previously, but to quickly summarize, anything toned sells like wild. And I mean wild. pl/dmpl Morgan's, early 1c, 25c, 50c, $1. UNC barber 25c, 50c. Better date walkers, mercs, Franklins. I have an awful time selling common stuff such as ms63 common date Morgan's. I can sell them but I can't get a dime over $50 unless it's a PQ coin. Proof type also does relatively well. Proof morgs, trade, barber, seated.

OwenSeymour

@Aspie_Rocco said:
Good for you OP! Glad to see it's possible for younger folks to make it somewhere on the coin business!
I am 36 and trying to transition from collector to collector/dealer. My Niche is Jefferson nickels. I have too much energy for coins to do internet only anymore.
Lol, I wish I could apprentice as a coin dealer, like I did as an electrician as a teenager.

I have NEVER been to a coin show. I tried this weekend but it was cancelled. I've been collecting for years and made ranks in the registry not ever having met many dealers.
Most of my collection is from eBay or scattered B&M shops, or personal pcgs submissions.
I met a charismatic young dealer in Las Vegas this weekend, under 30, at Archangel coins, who explained a great deal about dealing to me.
The only dealer I have known for a few years is maybe in his 40s?

I hope to meet more of the grouchy old guys they sound like fun and interesting characters. Seriously. They way I see things I can learn something from anyone either about coins or life.

I have recently learned that any of my social awkwardness or unease I normally deal with completely evaporates when discussing numismatics with anyone who is also interested in the subject.

I have recently had several lengthy conversations in B&M stores.
I volunteer to be a listener to any old timers who are willing to talk on and on about coins and such.

You should really try to get to more coin shows. I buy alot of raw jeffersons to submit to PCGS, as alot of dealers will just sell their raw Jeff's cheap regardless of their grade since they're all common coins. I've made like 3 or 4 top pop Jeff's in the past 3 months along with about a dozen MS67's and a bunch of MS66's.

291fifth

Wait until your customers try and sell some of their coins ... then you will find out just how dedicated they are to collecting.
If they find they have purchased "one way market" material they won't be back.

TurboSnail

@7Jaguars
@291fifth

If coin is the same as pokemon card with the younger generation, I have yet to see a kid who wants to sell their collection back to the store. As long it is fun, they do not care for the condition, edition, rarity nor value. Everyone has their favorite pokemon. And most of them are not in protective sleeves. So why are we, the adult coin collectors, have to tell them what to like and restrict them with many rules while detour young collector from joining?

Numiven

@OwenSeymour said:

@Numiven said:
Second this. On what basis are you saying the hobby is not dying.

I am wondering, what are anf for how much do these 12-21 yo able to buy. When i was 12, i had not much money, it was all daddys $$.

If thousands of 12-21 yo actively buying, selling, collecting, displaying coins all over the Internet isn't a sign to you there's nothing I can do to show you otherwise. Some kids spend $100/month some spend 1-5k / month. I haven't asked where they get money yet.

Cool. I am happy.
Can I know where in the internet I can find 1000s of 12-21 yo displaying their collection? Maybe I will enjoy their collection.

Gazes

Love the OP ---thanks for posting it !

Banknotes122

@Numiven said:

@OwenSeymour said:

@Numiven said:
Second this. On what basis are you saying the hobby is not dying.

I am wondering, what are anf for how much do these 12-21 yo able to buy. When i was 12, i had not much money, it was all daddys $$.

If thousands of 12-21 yo actively buying, selling, collecting, displaying coins all over the Internet isn't a sign to you there's nothing I can do to show you otherwise. Some kids spend $100/month some spend 1-5k / month. I haven't asked where they get money yet.

Cool. I am happy.
Can I know where in the internet I can find 1000s of 12-21 yo displaying their collection? Maybe I will enjoy their collection.

I can show you mine but it's nothing impressive.

RogerB

May I suggest that you collect and consolidate your insights and send them to the ANA both as an article for publication, and a "Memorial" to the Board of Directors (maybe you'll catch them awake...)

This is one of the first meaningful sets of comments on reinvigorating the hobby - and part of what it says is: maybe it's us "seasoned collectors" who are being unaware and insular.

FranklinHalfAddict

@Numiven said:

@OwenSeymour said:

@Numiven said:
Second this. On what basis are you saying the hobby is not dying.

I am wondering, what are anf for how much do these 12-21 yo able to buy. When i was 12, i had not much money, it was all daddys $$.

If thousands of 12-21 yo actively buying, selling, collecting, displaying coins all over the Internet isn't a sign to you there's nothing I can do to show you otherwise. Some kids spend $100/month some spend 1-5k / month. I haven't asked where they get money yet.

Cool. I am happy.
Can I know where in the internet I can find 1000s of 12-21 yo displaying their collection? Maybe I will enjoy their collection.

Instagram. He's only mentioned that about 4 times...

morgandollar1878

The younger crowd really should come to the coin shows at minimum. If they find a dealer that is "grumpy" they can just move on and find other dealers that are more up to par. There is nothing like seeing coins in person. Only so much can be learned from pics on the Internet, although I understand the convenience. I am a believer that the hobby is not dying, it is just changing and many of the older crowd don't see it because it is not their way. This is coming from a younger under 40 dealer.

ricko

@OwenSeymour - Great thread and super first post. Congratulations on your entrepreneurial drive and talent. I went to your site (and signed up)... Nice stuff.... Sometime I may want to check out your Walkers... Keep up the great work - I know there are young collectors out there - it is just a different venue... one of the reasons malls are dying all over the U.S.. Cheers, RickO

TonerGuy

@OwenSeymour said:

>

I believe I answered this previously, but to quickly summarize, anything toned sells like wild. And I mean wild. pl/dmpl Morgan's, early 1c, 25c, 50c, $1. UNC barber 25c, 50c. Better date walkers, mercs, Franklins. I have an awful time selling common stuff such as ms63 common date Morgan's. I can sell them but I can't get a dime over $50 unless it's a PQ coin. Proof type also does relatively well. Proof morgs, trade, barber, seated.

"I love early large cents, early half dollars, walking liberty halves, mercurys, and Franklins. Beautiful Toning is always awesome."

That was your quote. What you love. Not what your 12-21 customers are purchasing.

Sorry but I find it difficult to believe that your average 16-17 year old is buying proof Morgans, Trade $, Barbers and Seated type anything. You say some of your YNs are spending $1-$5k a month on coins. Its very well possible that you have Jeff Bezos's sons as clients but I want to know what your average YN is collecting. They are the future of the hobby.

You came here to claim that the industry is not only surviving but has an excellent future. I am not doubting you but specific information as to what the new YNs are collecting are much more beneficial for those on the board then broad claims.

And congrats on your success. Its only great to see the next generation of dealers.

Walkerguy21D

**I've been lucky enough to have been mentored by extremely knowledgeable individuals such as the Hipps family as well as Steve Feltner (PCGS Grader). **

If you have been working with Lance Hipps, you are indeed in good hands!
Best of luck to you going forward!
.

OwenSeymour

@TonerGuy said:

@OwenSeymour said:

>

I believe I answered this previously, but to quickly summarize, anything toned sells like wild. And I mean wild. pl/dmpl Morgan's, early 1c, 25c, 50c, $1. UNC barber 25c, 50c. Better date walkers, mercs, Franklins. I have an awful time selling common stuff such as ms63 common date Morgan's. I can sell them but I can't get a dime over $50 unless it's a PQ coin. Proof type also does relatively well. Proof morgs, trade, barber, seated.

"I love early large cents, early half dollars, walking liberty halves, mercurys, and Franklins. Beautiful Toning is always awesome."

That was your quote. What you love. Not what your 12-21 customers are purchasing.

Sorry but I find it difficult to believe that your average 16-17 year old is buying proof Morgans, Trade $, Barbers and Seated type anything. You say some of your YNs are spending $1-$5k a month on coins. Its very well possible that you have Jeff Bezos's sons as clients but I want to know what your average YN is collecting. They are the future of the hobby.

You came here to claim that the industry is not only surviving but has an excellent future. I am not doubting you but specific information as to what the new YNs are collecting are much more beneficial for those on the board then broad claims.

And congrats on your success. Its only great to see the next generation of dealers.

Thanks! But of course that is not the "average" customer. There's only a small handful / percentage buying that material. I have no reason to lie lol. Proof barber and seated is pretty cheap.

Thunderproof

I follow @OwenSeymour on Instagram. As a 24 year old I can vouch for everything he has said. I have more followers on my "coin" instagram than on my personal one. People are very exited and always ready to buy/sell/trade/make deals/etc. I would disagree that the age range is 12-21 and say it's more along the lines of 15-30 but I'm sure there are some outside of that range as well.

These people are buying quality. Like @OwenSeymour said, no one wants the junk. People are regularly trading high end quality pieces valued in the hundreds and thousands of dollars. This is one of the reasons I suspect the majority are in their 20s, they have new jobs (with relatively few expenses) and disposable income to afford these types of purchases. Not to mention the growing "alternate investment" segment where even high profile investors are moving some money to collectibles as a hedge against intangible investments that are purely backed in faith by the government (we all know how that will turn out). It seems that people are valuing tangible assets more than ever.

I've been collecting coins for over 10 years and recently jumped into this coin community on Instagram and I can say I am enjoying viewing and sharing coins more than ever.

OwenSeymour

Appreciate the insight! @Thunderproof About half my proof material actually sells to one dealer who is 18 or 19. The rest does typically sell to high teens /low 20's. What's your instagram name?

Thunderproof

@OwenSeymour my Instagram name is monsterihc

OwenSeymour

@Thunderproof said:
@OwenSeymour my Instagram name is monsterihc

Awesome, just followed!

bronco2078

Us grumpy old types or even grumpy middle age types are going to ignore every word that follows "instagram" "twitter", and or"snapchat" in a sentence

seatedlib3991

Good luck Owen. I wish you nothing but the best. Years ago I learned I was a hobby guy, but I am glad there are also those who wish to be dealers.

OwenSeymour

@bronco2078 said:

Us grumpy old types or even grumpy middle age types are going to ignore every word that follows "instagram" "twitter", and or"snapchat" in a sentence

Then it's easy to understand why they're under the misconception that the hobby is dying

neildrobertson

It's worth pointing out that the idea that the hobby is in some level of decline and your personal experience are not mutually exclusive. During the 'Great Recession' 90+% of people still had jobs. You may be using your anecdotal experience to comment on a greater trend.

That being said. My personal experience backs yours up. 90% or more of my acquisitions are from online auctions, about 5% from online dealers, and 5% in person.

The hobby will still be alive as long as there are people here collecting and interested in coins.

roadrunner

In my rounds of the regional Sunday show, I can say I didn't run into a single grumpy dealer. Any table I paused at was met with a greeting, and most of them I didn't know personally. They were eager and willing to pull coins out. Then again, it wasn't 2 or 3 deep to view coins either.

If Owen's statements are accurate reflections of market activity, then this new younger crowd is actively buying sight/unseen (buying via photos or want lists), in both raw and slabbed material....probably not returning very many coins they order. I would imagine a lot of these buyers are not up to speed on technical grading, especially if wild colors are primarily attract them. Wild colored coins can be made to order. But, it does all sound encouraging. The proof of the pudding is when some of them go to resell their coins or have to weather through their first coin recession (last one was 2009-2011).

OwenSeymour

@roadrunner said:
In my rounds of the regional Sunday show, I can say I didn't run into a single grumpy dealer. Any table I paused at was met with a greeting, and most of them I didn't know personally.

If Owen's statements are accurate reflections of market activity, then this new younger crowd is actively buying sight/unseen (buying via photos or want lists), in both raw and slabbed material....probably not returning very many coins they order. I would imagine a lot of these buyers are not up to speed on technical grading, especially if wild colors are primarily attract them. Wild colored coins can be made to order. But, it does all sound encouraging. The proof of the pudding is when some of them go to resell their coins or have to weather through their first coin recession (last one was 2009-2011).

Alot of YN enjoy collecting those coins with the colors on them and are very good at distinguishing between AT and NT. I'm not entirely sure how you can conclude that someone is bad at grading by observing that they like to collect toned coins, but okay. Some of the most brilliant graders I have met are in their low teens.

roadrunner

@OwenSeymour said:

Alot of YN enjoy collecting those coins with the colors on them and are very good at distinguishing between AT and NT. I'm not entirely sure how you can conclude that someone is bad at grading by observing that they like to collect toned coins, but okay. Some of the most brilliant graders I have met are in their low teens.

Didn't say all collectors of colorful coins couldn't grade. Only saying a "significant" portion of them probably can't. Whether that's 20% or 50% or XX% I have no idea unless I interfaced with them. My basic point was that there's a lot more than color/toning to consider when grading a coin. I'd be concerned for a young collector if color was the only thing they were focusing on.

OwenSeymour

@roadrunner said:

@OwenSeymour said:

Alot of YN enjoy collecting those coins with the colors on them and are very good at distinguishing between AT and NT. I'm not entirely sure how you can conclude that someone is bad at grading by observing that they like to collect toned coins, but okay. Some of the most brilliant graders I have met are in their low teens.

Didn't say all collectors of colorful coins couldn't grade. Only saying a "significant" portion of them probably can't. Whether that's 20% or 50% or XX% I have no idea unless I interfaced with them. My basic point was that there's a lot more than color/toning to consider when grading a coin.

Of course