Question concerning adjustment marks for the coin experts here.

PerryHall

When did the mint stop adjusting planchets using a file? Anyone know what year they stopped doing this?

Staircoins

Per Doug Winter: "Adjustment marks are most often seen on coins from the 1790’s and early 1800’s but they are sometimes seen on coins as late as the 1830’s."

http://www.caccoin.com/cac-in-the-news/qa-with-john-albanese-adjustment-marks/#.WNRPlzz3b7o

Insider2

I believe the planchets for gold coins were filed on their edges into the 20th century. I base this on the microscopic examination of the edges of these coins. While most horizontal file marks are obliterated when the planchet is pushed into the collar reeds, on occasion, they are still visible. I have photos of this characteristic; however, I have neither the time or inclination (SORRY) to search for them as anyone who starts to look at edge reeding with a glass can confirm what I am posting.

I look at a lot of gold coins on a daily basis so I will photo the next one I see and give the date and mint.

PerryHall

I never realized that the mint continued to hand adjust individual planchets for so long. I would have guessed that this slow labor intensive process would have ended in about 1836 when the mint started striking coins with steam powered presses.

MrHalfDime

"I believe the planchets for gold coins were filed on their edges into the 20th century. I base this on the microscopic examination of the edges of these coins."

Is this a description of 'adjustment marks', done at the Mint, or of 'shaving', a form of post mint damage done to remove some precious metal from each coin? I don't know the answer myself, but that sounds suspicious. Adjustment marks were made using a file, shaving across the face of the planchets before the coin was struck.

Sonorandesertrat

Insider2,
Thank you for your post---I learned something interesting from it.

CaptHenway

@Insider2 said:
I believe the planchets for gold coins were filed on their edges into the 20th century. I base this on the microscopic examination of the edges of these coins. While most horizontal file marks are obliterated when the planchet is pushed into the collar reeds, on occasion, they are still visible. I have photos of this characteristic; however, I have neither the time or inclination (SORRY) to search for them as anyone who starts to look at edge reeding with a glass can confirm what I am posting.

I look at a lot of gold coins on a daily basis so I will photo the next one I see and give the date and mint.

I believe you are correct. I am glad that they finally figured out that adjusting the edges would not disfigure the finished coins.

KellenCoin

@Insider2 said:
I believe the planchets for gold coins were filed on their edges into the 20th century. I base this on the microscopic examination of the edges of these coins. While most horizontal file marks are obliterated when the planchet is pushed into the collar reeds, on occasion, they are still visible. I have photos of this characteristic; however, I have neither the time or inclination (SORRY) to search for them as anyone who starts to look at edge reeding with a glass can confirm what I am posting.

I look at a lot of gold coins on a daily basis so I will photo the next one I see and give the date and mint.

That's cool thanks!

Insider2

@MrHalfDime said:
"I believe the planchets for gold coins were filed on their edges into the 20th century. I base this on the microscopic examination of the edges of these coins."

Is this a description of 'adjustment marks', done at the Mint, or of 'shaving', a form of post mint damage done to remove some precious metal from each coin? I don't know the answer myself, but that sounds suspicious. Adjustment marks were made using a file, shaving across the face of the planchets before the coin was struck.

I'm sorry I did not make my post easier to understand. Let me ask you a question so that you may better understand the coins you look at.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE (WHAT WILL THE EDGE LOOK LIKE ON A STRUCK COIN) BETWEEN FILING A PLANCHET BEFORE IT IS STRUCK AND FILING THE EDGE OF A COIN (PMD) AFTER IT IS STRUCK?

Also, while file marks across the face of a planchet (adjustment marks) may not be completely struck out and are the usual characteristic we think of when we hear those words, you are mistaken in your belief that they were only done to the "face" of the planchet. Read my post again.

ricko

Interesting.... I would like to see pictures of gold coins with filing prior to striking... I am having trouble imagining what it would look like...Obvious more to the top and bottom of reeding/edge lettering? Cheers, RickO

RogerB

Face filing of blanks declined as the accuracy of rolling and cutting improved. By 1836-7 when Peale's toggle press came into regular use, the consistent force of this type of press obliterated nearly all surface marks. The practice of edge filing became standard sometime during this period, and was practiced continually until the end of gold coinage in 1933.

Mechanical adjustment (called "shaving") of blanks was used intermittently from the 1870s forward. Use increased as technology improved. (The Royal Mint use mechanical adjustment long before the US tested it. However, the US gold coinage system was much more complex than Britain's.)

A couple of quotes from the book "From Mine to Mint" follow. There is much more information on this subject in the book, for those who are interested.

"Adjusting Blanks – Carson City, 1880
Adjusting consisted of checking the weight of the blanks and bringing those that were too heavy down to the standard weight or within the limit of working tolerance. This was done by lightly filing the blanks as received from the cutting press.
"This work was done by eight women under the supervision of a forewoman. Each adjuster had a small pair of Troemner scales, upon which the blanks were tested. If a blank was found to weigh more than the working tolerance allows, it was filed on the edge by rolling it between the thumb and fingers lengthwise over a ten-inch bastard file, thus reducing its circumference uniformly. If its weight was already within the prescribed limits, it was passed without adjusting; if too light it was condemned."

Philadelphia --
"Scales were placed directly in front of each adjuster. They also had a flat file and a round brush much like that of a house painter. A pile of blanks was placed before each and they were weighed in turn against a standard weight. If too heavy, the file is used to remove a few tiny particles from the blank’s rough edge. If too light, the piece is rejected altogether. Round and square tin cans stood before each adjuster for the different pieces. Those that were standard weight were ready to be upset (or “milled”), the light blanks were reweighed, and if found to vary more than an eighth of a grain, were considered altogether too light, and set aside for melting.
"All this was done rapidly and with precision. The adjuster’s eye was fixed on the scale’s register, and the busy hands moved almost mechanically from pile to file, and to the open-mouthed receptacles. The gold particles were allowed to fall on sheets of stiff brown paper that covered the tables."

"Filing a blank was done in a peculiar manner, which took some skill and practice to accomplish properly. The piece was not held still and filed haphazard on the edge or face, for were this done the blank would no longer be round when finished, or the surface would be marred. The filing must be evenly done. To accomplish this, the blank was held firmly between the gloved finger and thumb of the left hand and rolled up and down on the face of a flat file which was held in the right hand. The piece must be held lightly enough to permit it to roll, and yet firmly enough that the file would “bite” and remove some metal from the edge. Any slight inaccuracies of the piece caused by unskillful filing were subsequently corrected when the blank passed through the upsetting machine elsewhere described.
"An experienced and skillful operator could handle from eleven to twelve hundred pieces daily, while others could only handle about eight hundred in the same working hours."

PerryHall

Thanks, Roger. I'm getting quite the education here. Did they bother to adjust by hand the silver coin blanks in the later years or was it only done with the gold blanks?

Insider2

@ricko said:
Interesting.... I would like to see pictures of gold coins with filing prior to striking... I am having trouble imagining what it would look like...Obvious more to the top and bottom of reeding/edge lettering? Cheers, RickO

Thanks for your input Roger!

@Ricko In order to see what you ask: "Picture of gold coin w/filing PRIOR to striking." you would need to see a gold PLANCHET (prior to striking) that was overweight and had its edge filed. Wink, wink.

grip

Saved! Thanks Roger.