Whats up with this 1919 buffalo
justcollecting
Posts: 195 ✭✭✭
Looks like the neck is missing but has an adams apple.
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justcollecting
Posts: 195 ✭✭✭
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Pashmina?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I remember seeing that once or twice as a kid. I wonder what it is? Pretty neat coin thanks for sharing.
Maybe @ErrorsOnCoins might have an idea?
That might be the remains of a die clash, where the rest of the evidence was polished away along with much of the neck.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Sean has it right. I call these "Floating Jaw" varieties in my book on Buff 5c abraded dies. As of now there's around a dozen different dates known.
I met a collector once who braided his hair. He wasn't an indian though so it looked a bit silly.
Yep...Floating Jaw. I have a 1930-S of this variety.
I do believe this is a product of a rusted die. Call it a floating jaw too but that's why it floats
I have not noticed that before... If I saw it, likely just attributed it to wear.... Interesting. Cheers, RickO
It's not wear......because it occurs on high grade coins as well as low grade coins. I would put it in the same class as the 3 and the 3 1/2 leg varieties. It really should be in the sets with those.
Thanks Jon...I see that now, was referring to the likely assumption I may have made when looking at my many, many Buffs in the past. Next blizzard here, I will pull them out and recheck,...
Cheers, RickO
The coin is raw and in AU condition so there is not much wear.
Must have been your book I was reading (The abraded die varieties) Very Interesting book. I was able to save it as a pdf file. Very interesting and a good reference.Thank you and everyone else for their replies.
Found your book at this link. If anyone else is interested.
nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/526116
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guess i'll say it again.
post full pics of obv/rev. please
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Lance
Im learning here.. You have to give me a little more than fake. Im working on your pictures.
here are some quick pics. quality not to good but ok
Some other things I just noticed
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tyvm for the lfcp.
it looks a bit more authentic in some respect from the large full coin pics (lfcp) but the color is a bit more off from the images than what i was hoping for and the conflicting devices about die state. some parts seem very lds while others are eds. this kind of contradiction is usually a good sign of a counterfeit as they used an lds version for die transfer but then had much better dies overall to strike a new coin and presumably in this scenario, a much softer metal also giving a better strike. your images overall are good though, don't get me wrong as well as your presentation.
guess i'm going down with the ship on this one as i'm not relinquishing my position. i want to based on the big pics but that closeup is resonating all the hundreds of fakes i've seen with the exact same look. i will leave a 1% chance of being wrong because lighting has been the fine line a few occasions before. haven't been wrong in a while, so lets see where i land going against the crowd, yet again.
you've been so kind. how about a weight test? should be 5 grams give or take 1/10th of a gram.
so what? that is 4.8 to 5.2 (.194 by the sheet info)
if it weighs in properly, guess i will have to do the thing i wished to avoid and that is search my counterfeit archives of images and also find some of this example online for authentic versions and compare to see where i may have gone awry. we aren't there just yet though.
either way justcollecting, i appreciate you being a good sport.
edited to add.
thanks VERY MUCH for cropping the images down in size. 200kb or so for each image. i look forward to your future efforts. :-D
Exactly 5.0 grams, actually toggling between 4.9 and 5.0 Mostly on five. Will try and get better pics
i'm glad you mentioned that thing behind the eye. that was the next thing i was gonna run down, which i'll do now.
the place below the feathers is clashing from the reverse and on many buffalos, with and without 2, 2/12 and 3 full feathers.
the neck area does come legitimately polished down, as does the area around the eye as well as a couple other places on really worn/polished dies.
thanks for the weight, i really thought it was gonna come in under tolerance. so much for that.
how about a ring test? find a reliably but not damaging surface to drop a few nickels, including this one on and listen for variations. should be really obvious if this is the kind of fake i'm thinking of.
i'll also dig through my images cuz i KNOW i've seen that gouged neck on fakes before. you are putting for the effort and i will reciprocate.
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i misspoke about the thing you pointed to in front of the eye, really closer to liberty. i was going too fast. that mark there "should" be from clashing although, i don't see that mark there, really ever. maybe once exception posted recently.
i'm still hunting my images. my buff folder is empty, so it may have been accidentally moved into another folder. the only folder that seems this happened to. ugh
been a long time since i dug through these and the full organization was abandoned because it simply wore me out.
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ok. i have to abandon my search until tomorrow. i have other things i need to tend to and i see this is going to require more time to find comparison images.
i"ll be back...
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Better pictures
It's not a hobo nickel!
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ttt
as a reminder for me.
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there is also a gouge by the rear leg. similar to the obv gouge.
no pix found yet.
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It's an abraided die that was re-worked to remove a serious die clash. The line by the Indian's eye is the belly of the Buff, which was not totally repaired.
Pete
Whoa.
Thanks for the info Pete. There is also some spots on the reverse on the shoulder so you think the spots are pmd or a result of the clash?
Those spots (pits) are in the area where the Indian's braid would be located. It is possible that they are residue from not totally removing the clash, as it would have been pretty severe given the size and depth of the braid.
Not a fake as far as I can tell. I do see just the slightest rub but that's not the issue here.