Buffalo Nickel Grading Test Follows
BUFFNIXX
Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭✭✭
have a stab at grading this overdate buffalo nickel.......
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
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just for some follow up if you look at the buffs horn it is probably 80 percent outlined, but not 100 percent if that means anything to you.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Today's Fine 12. Yesterday's VG.
I agree with F12. Not enough overall detail to go F15, too much to call it VG.
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Agree with Koynekwest, F-12.
Agree with F12. I have a F15 and it has just a bit more detail than this one (although the reverses are basically the same).
Looks like a VG10 to me.
EAC 6024
F12 ... but F15 wouldn't surprise me.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
I'd call it an 11.
I could see it Going F-12 without CAC or VG-10 with CAC.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
This coin is currently for sale on eBay.
The auction number is 122399201264
just cut and paste this number into the eBay search line, do a search on this auction, and you
will be taken right to it. Asking price is almost five grand!!
Take a look.
buffnixx
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Wow!! Someone was given a gift.
Yikes... would be a VG10 to me.
If that's a VF20, I need to re-grade about everything in my raw inventory 8-(
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Yep it is in an NGC VF20 holder. It may be that when you tilt the coin the right way the horn is nearly outlined.
This takes me back to the 1960ies when the Brown and Dunn grading guide said that to be very fine a coin needed to
have a full horn. Maybe this horn is in fact fully outlined or nearly so but the coin itself contains way to much wear on both sides
to merit a full very fine grade.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Wow!! Someone was given a gift.
Yes, except when you go to sell, and the narrow field of specialists in the series that would be seriously interested in it look at it and see it's overgraded by ~8 points and keep on looking.
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Thanks all for tips on Buffalo grading
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only $4942.71 and you can have this beauty!!!!
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
to all participants thanks for your input.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
I've been interested in Buffalo 5c for the better part of the last 40 years and have looked at more than a handful in that time. Back in the late '80s and early '90s a Buffalo without a FULL horn simply couldn't be called a VF or higher. The Official A.N.A. Grading Standards For United States Coins (3rd Edition/Copyright 1987) states that for a VF-20 "Tail and point of horn are visible." This was the rule of the day as I recall it. TPG's were new so it was mostly raw coins then and dealers would push the boundaries to call coins VF while collectors were all hunting for those pesky horn tips and tails or were unwilling to pay VF prices to fill holes in their collections.
Of course, this was somewhat conservative because Buffs are notorious for soft strikes (especially some of the key S-mint coins) and if you had a keen eye you could buy a Fine or even VG priced coin with a lot of "meat on the bone" simply because of the lack of horn & tail. As time moved along, market grading kicked in and the lack of fully struck Buffs to satisfy robust collector demand caused an easing of standards. Thus, many VF Buffs graded in the later 90's or 00's have nice detail overall but lack the elusive horn tip and tail detail. It can be argued that this is a reasonable compromise, I suppose, when the aspects of the metal (nickel) and the issues with striking them are considered.
However, this coin is clearly an example of either bad grading (a single mistake) or standards completely lost, in my opinion. My first instinct was to call this a VG-8 to 10. The horn is half there and the tail is non-existent to my eyes. Then, when considering the modern and looser standards I conceded that it was likely housed in an F-12 holder.
Any Buff collector with any experience will reject this coin as a VF20 no matter who graded it. It simply is nowhere close to that level. For me, it's hard to imagine that a respected TPG certified it as such. This is why I stick with coins graded by our host and always "buy the coin not the holder". Just my 2 cents....
I said a "F15 wouldn't surprise me" because I know ATS grades Buffs liberally. No way did I expect a VF20 though. Wow.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
I came up with my opinion with the OP's photo and two grading guides, Bowers and ANA's.
I was going to post but saw the grade was already given. Nevertheless, in one ear and out the other Dept.
The image is the poster child for a VG-8. Since that does not reflect the coin's commercial value, it is my personal VG-10. I grade by the old standards. Since the coin was in a slab, I was going to post VG-10 but in a F-12 slab as my answer. I agree that this coin is OVERGRADED as a VF.
FWIW, my initial thought was 20, but 15 minimum. Gradeflation? Maybe. But this coin is pretty strong. It's a deteriorated die and it has a strong date. I recently bought an 18/7 in a small auction that was in a new, yellow, ANACS holder as a G-4. It looked nicer so I figured I could grade it at PCGS or NGC at the same grade and make $50. So, I cracked it and sent it to NGC raw, where it came back as a 10.
Tom
VF20 is absurd. I think we discussed this one the other day when you were over here.
Honestly - I love the buffalo nickel but can't stand how they are graded.
For comparison, here is my PCGS F15:
The horn in the OP coin looks a touch more complete but I usually look to the meeting of the fur with the hide in the middle of the buffalo and that seems to be a match. On the obverse, my lettering is cleaner and the hair/braid detail is better. Maybe I should cross it!
My guess would have been F12... that was on first view of the OP.... as I scrolled down and saw the ebay link, I was amazed that it was graded a 20.... I have an interest in Buffs...and have had for a long time, they are one of the great U.S. coin designs.... Never would I assign this a 20 grade... maybe, in hand, a 15... though I doubt it... that goes against all the standards I have used.... and the price (?)... I don't think so... Cheers, RickO
So it must have been a 25 before it was netted for the obverse rim hits/pitting.
I would not offer more than 10 money.
VG 10
right now its for sale on flea bay for $4942 and change!!
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Here's a PCGS F12 in the upcoming Stacks auction that looks like it has very similar detail to the OP coin. Actually, this one DOES have a full horn:
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-6Y41R
I love buffalos and I love overdates. However, that is not a 20, it's a 12. To me that's G/F any day of the week. I don't care how the reverse looks but that's trash too. I could understand an absolutely solid reverse and this grading as a 20 for the better side of the coin but it is not. Someone is selling one with similar reverse and slightly worse obverse for 1k. I see 2500 in that coin not 5000. Why have an over date error if you can't see it in your hand. That's a "so I have one" piece.
One reason it looks so bad is the die state-it's very late. The PCGS coin is a LDS, too, but at least it's much closer to the stated grade.
Take a look at the following slabbed buff that is slabbed by the same grading services as the one we are talking about here.
It is for sale by APMEX which now owns the so-called vf20 we are visiting in the post. This is graded a good-04:
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
This grading is spot on and the asking price is $729. A really good deal. Only problem about buying something from the is they use stock photos and thats what this may be. You buy this coin and you could wind up with another one not as nice.
Compare this one with the “vf20” I would really rather have this piece all day, especially comparing the price difference.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"