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Mel Wacks slabbed by ATS! Can Dan Carr be far behind?
Zoins
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I've noticed ATS slabbing more exonumia and just ran across this Mel Wacks piece on the bay.
Now that Mel's pieces are being slabbed ATS, can Dan's pieces be far behind?
I've been impressed by the ability of ATS to slab more and more exonumia. Would be great for PCGS to expand their coverage as well.
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Dan should be next!
I've seen a few of the Mel Wacks Camp David counterstamped Peace Dollars in NGC holders lately as well. ANACS has been grading the Mel Wacks coins for awhile now. Maybe 4-5 years ago I sent one in to PCGS for grading and it was supposedly on David Hall's desk for a few months while they decided if they would grade them. Was ultimately told no, but they would probably reconsider if they are ever listed in a catalog somewhere. I know Mel Wacks has all of his work cataloged online, but never pursued the matter to see if that was sufficient. Just a matter of time before PCGS does start slabbing these.
But I think the Dan Carr pieces have a few more hurdles to overcome before you see those in PCGS holders...
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Jaime Hernandez wrote a piece against the 64D Peace Overstrike.
Unsure about other issues.
Dan's work certainly does deserve to be slabbed.... I consider his art to be far superior to that of the mint in modern times. Cheers, RickO
Since PCGS slabs medals from the Great China Hong Kong Collectors Association, I'm hoping PCGS will also be able to slab medals from the Glendale Coin Club and other clubs. I'm not sure what hurdles would need to be overcome here.
For ATS, I have an ATS slabbed / graded Pacific Coast Numismatic Society (PCNS) medal so there is some hope on the ATS side as well, in addition to the Mel Wacks piece above.
ANACS slabs them as MS60
Here's an ANACS PF65 that just sold on the bay.
The ATS one above is a MS65 so both services will assign grades above 60.
I can see medals and stuff like this, but never Dan Carr's things....never.
Dan makes a lot of medals. He doesn't only overstrike coins if that's what you're thinking.
Yes, PCGS should never slab overstrikes by DC.
If expanding the scope of material that is accepted for slabbing comes at the cost of authentication accuracy, I would not support it.
Some of the stuff that I've seen slabbed by NGC isn't heavily researched or documented, and I'm not sure how they can make the authentication determination with near complete accuracy. This statement isn't directed toward DCarr's work, but things like modern, city commemoratives.
get used to it. people collect dan carr coins. it's part of numismatics. eventually, the top tier grading companies are going to slab these. right now, they are just missing out on money.
Wrong......striking over real coins with fake coins should NEVER be "part of numismatics"! I have faith that PCGS will always realize this and not go after this kind of money.
denial isn't a river in egypt!
i say that slabbing tokens, over-strikes, counter-stamps, fantasy coins, and the like, is educational for collectors and profitable for TPGs.
They absolutely should slab Dan's stuff. A true artist.
Makes no sense not too, really. And there have been many "counterstrikes" and stamps well recognized, esp. by the dark side. Somehow, a bit of prejudice against his issues seems to issue forth from the 10c man. Perhaps to each his own, and maybe dimes are what he knows, God bless him.
Well, just Love coins, period.
There is no comparison between what Wacks does and what Carr does. Wacks coins are not made to look like rare or esoteric numismatic items, whether such coins still exist, purport to exist, or have ever existed, etc. I'll leave it at that.
Yes !! No comparison.. lol
Maybe you should leave it at that .
I think these are just a couple of examples similar to EXACTLY what Mel does .. Hmmm
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Well gang !!
They stayed off the thread as long as they could, but eventually they show their faces
The Wacks piece posted in the original post is overstruck with a design that does not mimic official U.S. coin designs or inscriptions. Big difference IMHO.
Show me a US coin design that reads MOONLIGHT MINT OPEN HOUSE CLEARLY ON THE REVERSE
Yup. There is a big difference. Carr stuff is waaaay cooler
I see some of my friends, good friend, disagree with me on the respect I have for Dan's stuff. So be it, But here's the deal. I LOVE his stuff. Take a look at this GORGEOUS 1917 broken sword Peace dollar. I rest my case.
Your still my bud DIMEMAN, I still love ya
The overstrike issue aside, Dan Carr produces some of the most well designed and executed medals for coin clubs and other numismatic organizations. These should be absolutely appropriate for encapsulation.
AGREED !!
If it weren't for this I would never be able to afford a Gobrecht coin
Thank you LSCC & Moonlight Mint
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Dan's 1964D Peace can trade for $600 these days.
I got most of mine when they traded in low $200.
I was late to the DC party and missed out on their sub $100 issue price.
I see many Chinese counterfeits of the 1964D on ebay. In fact most 64D Peace offered on ebay are not Dan Carr creations.
I'd like to see PCGS encapsulate Daniel Carr's 1964D Peace Dollars as they are related to numismatics.
Daniel Carr was successful in having his New York design used for New York State 25c. Does the US Mint use any thing made by Mel Wacks ?
Lindy
The only way that the Dan Carr 64D Pease Dollar is related to numismatics.....is that it is a fake copy of a coin that was struck by the U.S. Mint and is illegal!
Well you can't confuse 'counterstrike' with 'overstrike' because with a counterstrike, the original coin can be clearly seen enough to authenticate that it was originally struck at a US Mint, allowing the grading service to put their name on the label, confidentially.
Perhaps in order for DC overstrikes, the service would have to receive the items directly from the source (Moon Light Mint) with some type of certification of accountability, guaranteeing they are authentic, maybe then.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
i agree counterstrike <> overstrike.
however, there are remnants of the original coin on every dcarr overstrike piece i own. i can see them with 9x mag. i think it would be fairly easy to authenticate them.
encapsulation clears up any confusion one might have about the coin in question by describing it for what it is to anyone who is interested enough to look.
The only reason for NGC to slab Carr Coins is because then PCGS is next to do it (per pressure). Or at least, I hope so!
The Chinese pieces are no more counterfeits than Carr's versions. The pieces are either both "fantasy coins" or both counterfeits. Which is it?
When the Chinese say their 1964D Peace $ are Daniel Carr made then they are counterfeit.
As a 40-year coin collector and someone who has not only seen but actually owns Dcarr's 1964 peace dollars, I get immense joy from seeing the controversy and hate. You're simply fueling the demand.
As a 10+ year shareholder of CLCT, I once again urge our hosts to begin slabbing these important pieces of numismatic history.
And for everyone who doesn't hate on these, please enjoy these images of the one I just sold on the BST.
--Severian the Lame
Ngc is slabbing generic silver, so they take the lead...
While the Mel Wacks and Dan Carr items are interesting and I do so happen to like them, the need for slabbing them seems to just not resonate with me yet.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I think the lead has already been taken and the winner is .....
That is a very nice multi-slab, but I think more is needed because those are like promotional slabs since they aren't graded like the Mel Wacks pieces. The numbers verify but also indicate no grade. The work continues.
You have to start somewhere
People can hate on ANACS, but their slabbing of Dans pieces is pretty sweet, because besides the different label designations you also get a hand written signature authenticating the item
The ANACS product adequately serves the purpose quite well. They know what Dan's creations are and do a good job with the insert and signature. My interest is not in the grade, but having them authenticated and in something better than just a 'flip' for long term storage. Not too shabby for display purposes either ~ Just my personal observations.
I use ICG for all my Dan Carr issues. I would send to PCGS IF they slabbed them
I'm surprised no one is griping that ICG called the pieces replica. The word replica is synonymous with reproduction. Reproductions are required to be marked with the word COPY on them.
Somebody file a class action lawsuit quick...
A fake is a fake is a fake.
Further deterioration of the prestige of the third party slab.
So I need to update this 5 year old thread from 2017 since some major things happened, and it showed up in a search.
Great progress by PCGS! Thanks!