Slow turnaround (for my subs at least) ... Biz day 65+ ... wow

WingedLiberty1957

So I must have made well over 500 submissions over the past 6 years (perhaps spent well over $20,000 in grading fees to PCGS). For a non-dealer, i wonder if that should that make me a gold star customer ... LOL. And I have never had any submission take more than 3 calendar months; and only once has a submission taken more than 2 months to complete.

That is until now.

I sent an Economy Raw Grading submission in late November and it was checked into PCGS on December 2nd and it's still in queue on March 7th. WOW! That's over 3 full calendar months in queue (passing business day 65).

Meanwhile PCGS estimates of turnaround is quite a bit less than that!

So I've blown past PCGS expected economy turnaround of 26 days ... and blown past DOUBLE that estimate when it passed 52 days ... and now working towards a TRIPLE that turnaround estimate (which would be 78 days ... I'll be there in another 2 weeks).

On another front, I also sent in an EXPRESS submission that was checked in on January 10th. However for some reason PCGS changed my service level from Express to Regular in late January (no explanation given) -- and now that submission is getting close to 2 calendar months in queue (passing business day 40)

Express is supposed to take 10 business days and regular 20 business days.

In the absence of information from PCGS, I have been attempting to imagine what might be wrong. I wonder if PCGS might have manpower issues in the grading office -- if perhaps a lot of their graders left and PCGS has been unable to hire new graders? I can't think of what else might be wrong.

A few weeks ago, I spoke to someone in Customer Service who said they'd put an "expedite" on the subs -- but that has never worked for me. So I wasn't really surprised when another few weeks went by with no movement.

Something certainly seems to have changed at PCGS over the past few months. Anyone else having similar slow turnaround times?

illini420

Keep calling...

The squeaky wheel gets the "grades" sometimes

WingedLiberty1957

Michael, thanks for the input!
I wouldn't mind the slowness so much if I got the tiniest bit of feedback or information from PCGS.
Communication would do a lot in the goodwill department.
I'm sure there are all sorts of reasons for a 3-4 month calendar turnaround, but it would be nice to get a shout out.

LanceNewmanOCC

.
that is unfortunate to read. i've kind of followed your posts as you've been making them.

it was nearly this time last year, maybe april, when everything started going pear-shaped at pcgs. starting with david's surgery. there seemed to be some direct correlation to the timing, from my perspective and the beginning of the doubling of turn-around times. never thought it would go this long.

a lot of little things. checks getting cashed MUCH faster, which is fine, just an observation, slower turn around times, customer service issues and some other things.

i'm like you, i'd love to know just what the heck is going on with them, and yes, partly out of concern. it is not healthy business practice.

it seems i may get a regular order back a bit sooner than expected but still much longer than the past several years, except holiday seasons, which is to be expected.

can't even imagine how hard it must be to find employees that are skilled, trustworthy, accurate and have the stamina to go year after year. must be a daunting task.
.

WingedLiberty1957

Lance, yes I agree with you! I bet finding good graders that want to stay longer term is TOUGH. It's a very skilled job and probably very fatiguing. I think I would last about 2 days there.

DoubleEagle59

I find this disturbing and totally unacceptable from a world class outfit such as PCGS.

Add to this the high cost of grading and I think an explanation to the customer is called for.

BryceM

Problems happen to all companies. How they deal with them determines their chance for long-term success and repeat business.

Stuff like this is why it is always good for the consumer to have healthy competition in the marketplace. Back in the day Apple and IBM made each other better. Same with Japanese cars and American cars.......

WingedLiberty1957

One idea I had was a reduction in fees for every week a submission goes past the expected turnaround time.

So if an Express sub goes 2-3 months instead of 2 weeks -- they reduce the fees so you are not PAYING the express cost while getting worse than Economy service.

It seems a bit unfair if they actually charge me the full Express cost for my sub that took 2-3 months. (Express is $65 a coin vs Economy which is $25). You pay more for faster service, but if the service is slower than economy hard to justify them charging you that accelerated higher fee.

DoubleEagle59

If turnaround times are going to be posted, then there should be some kind of acceptable adherence to them.

I can accept a day or two, even a week or a few days over that.

But anything that exceeds a certain long time (such as the OP's situation) and I think some sort of financial reimbursement, whatever it is, should be implemented.

djm

Have you called either David Talk or Mark Stephenson directly to find out what is going on with your orders? Either of these guys can get your order moving.

Something is obviously going on that shouldn't be, your orders are misplaced, entered in to the system incorrectly, problem with your payment, etc.

Wabbit2313

Mine have been fine, even faster than posted. Something is up with your order obviously.

logger7

I know it can be a pain, and I'm sure they are trying their best. It must be a bear of a challenge to find qualified workers in CA. The squeaky wheel gets the oil...or replaced.

clarkbar04

Amazing to me that they don't have some flag in their system that says they have submissions that old still in process. It looks like orders are being turned pretty quickly.

jcping

I bet Feb member special (pay nothing if DNC) is the factor of delaying.

WingedLiberty1957

I always pay w a credit card. No problem with that in 6 years.

When i spoke w cust serv 2 weeks ago ... all they said was "wow it shouldnt take that long, i'll put an expedite on your orders"

I wasnt optimistic as ive heard that line before.

I am curious if they will charge me express service fees on my early january order

'

WingedLiberty1957

Funny that one of my subs i mailed just after thanksgiving. NFL regular season was in full swing, Obama was still president, still 4 weeks to Christmas. Seems like an eon ago ... lol. Honestly, I barely remember mailing it!

Wabbit2313

Are there any special circumstances to these orders? Strange coins, varieties, attributions, anything?

WingedLiberty1957

Boring lincoln cents

cameonut2011

I had hoped to have my crossover submissions back before the next Long Beach show... I'm not getting my hopes up anymore.

WingedLiberty1957

All i can picture in my head is this ... lol

My submissions are in there somewhere.

I think ive seen one too many episodes of hoarders!

WingedLiberty1957

Here are the contents of the two subs ... fairly mundane stuff

cameonut2011

I think modern ASEs and stuff coming out for the new year are also responsible for the delays.

jonruns

When my customers want something from me they call me every day (or 5x a day)....stop speculating and pick up the phone...

wondercoin

"In the absence of information from PCGS, I have been attempting to imagine what might be wrong. I wonder if PCGS might have manpower issues in the grading office -- if perhaps a lot of their graders left and PCGS has been unable to hire new graders? I can't think of what else might be wrong."

WingedLiberty1957 - As jonruns just mentioned - why post speculative statements such as lot of graders leaving when you could simply avoid posting a thread like this all together and simply take the time to call PCGS Customer Service a couple times to know exactly what is going on? At this point, ask to speak to David Talk - he runs Customer Service and is quite competent. I have no doubt h can tell you exactly what the problem has been with your orders. Good luck and come back on this thread to update us all once you have had an opportunity to speak with Mr. Talk.

Wondercoin

WingedLiberty1957

I called and emailed them already! Nobody at pcgs knows why its delayed. The response has been "we will put an expedite on it".

TopographicOceans

You should ask them to expedite it.

ricko

That certainly does seem to be an inordinate amount of time.. at this point, a direct inquiry to the head of customer service may be in order... Something exceptional seems to have occurred ... Cheers, RickO

deefree49

I have no idea what could be actually causing this but wonder if the crossover special might have jammed things up.
It is a real drag to wait, frustrating for sure when it gets this long...you might have to embark on an accelerated campaign of calls and emails and put on your "I want action!" attitude. Hope this gets resolved soon.

MonsterCoinz

I don't remember the last time I've had a sub that was complete by the estimated turnaround date. My last Reholder sub (5 business days) took 20 business days, and it took a call to customer service to have it expedited. In my case, the call actually had its intended effect.
I think this proves - without a doubt - that they do not have a system that flags these issues nor do they use a FIFO method with their submissions.

lkeigwin

If the pizza isn't delivered in one hour it should be free.
Lance.

LanLord

Estimated turnaround is listed in days, but not consecutive days. It'll be the 26 days of their choice apparently.

LanceNewmanOCC

@cameonut2011 said:
I think modern ASEs and stuff coming out for the new year are also responsible for the delays.

for recent months maybe but this prob started nearly 1 year ago. around april-may. maybe earlier for regular/econ etc.

we've beaten this horse enough, so i'mnot complaining, just discussing/analyzing.

if i were winglib though...

Order ---------Submission ----Date Received---Date--------------Shipped Status---Items----Service
21185501---------3482490---------2/15/2017---------3/7/2017---------Shipped-------------4---------Regular-1.75x -a little better
21151949---------4828471---------12/5/2016---------1/10/2017---------Shipped------------6--- Regular-2x
21098859---------2677652---------8/16/2016---------10/11/2016---------Shipped---------8-----Regular-3x-painful
21079815---------2948978---------7/12/2016---------8/11/2016---------Shipped---------6------Regular-2x
21061398---------4676664---------5/25/2016---------6/13/2016---------Shipped---------12------Regular-1.5x beginning of the slowdown?
21052311---------5662009---------5/9/2016--------- 5/13/2016-----Shipped------3-----Express-ok
21043804---------7967937---------4/18/2016---------4/20/2016-----Shipped-----1-----Express-ok

anyone with regular orders between mar-may last year?
.

davewesen

When you say 500 submissions are you saying 500 coins? or 500 separate submission pages, most with multiple coins?

On a positive note, I have seen a delay when there is a top pop or beautiful coin that they take pics of for CoinFacts.

Have you ever compared the USPS delivery date and the PCGS date received (entered into system) date?
There have been many holidays during the period you submission has been in and when a big chunk of the crew goes to a national show, do those count as working days?

Justacommeman

@TopographicOceans said:
You should ask them to expedite it.

Yes. Tell them to hurry it the F up. On the hop. Why do we have to think of everything?

mark

WingedLiberty1957

Patience is a virtue ! Right?
I know eventually it will get done.

And after all it's "just coins" ... not life and death.
There are much bigger problems in life.
There are billions of ppl on the planet w real problems -- and we should all be thankful for whatever good fortune we do have. Most if not all of us here have a roof over our heads and food/water ... i know I am thankful for those things.

I am more curious than anything on what happened exactly.

Someone above asked me about my 500 sub estimate ...
That was a full submission estimate (not a coin count estimate)

So to pass the time waiting for results from pcgs ...
I thought I would see how close my 500 submission estimate was to being factual.
I dont want to be accused of "alternative facts" (LOL).

So here is my submission count since getting re-involved in coins in 2011 (after a 40 year hiatus).

From my online submission status page:

2011 = 17 subs
2012 = 28 subs
2013 = 53 subs
2014 = 33 subs
2015 = 94 subs
2016 = 50 subs
2017 = 11 subs

**Total = 286 subs **

Ok so well under my estimate of 500 submissions in the past 7 years.
(Sure seemed like 500 thinking back on them!)
More like 300 Submissions.

Average coin count per submission was probably 5 coins per sub.
(I think my largest sub was 35 coins!)

So that's a total of around 1,430 coins (estimated)

738 of those coins made it into my Color of Money Showcase.
Gosh that is BIG!

https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/1362

So the discrepancy between my submitted estimate (1400+) and my big showcase (700+)
is due to Genuines (only a few of which I promoted) ...
non toned coins (which I dont promote to my color showcase) ...
and resubmissions of the same coins for regrade and reconsiders.

Avg fee (estimated) perhaps $20 per coin (that's prob on the low side if you include all the shipping and handling fees)

Just using a $20 per coin est ... Total spent $28,600

I think PCGS should give me a Gold Star for being such a good customer!
At least on the playing field of a non-dealer, average joe collector.

Even subway gives you a Free Sub Card!

If anyone owns PCGS stock maybe i made your stock go up a few pennies

ms70

That's odd since I just had a modern service coin turn around in just over 2 weeks from dropping at post office and back to my door. I was pretty shocked. I didn't expect to see that coin for about 2 months.

WingedLiberty1957

Wow MS70 ... that's fantastic! 2 week turnaround for Modern.

I've always thought that PCGS should try for a "First In, First Out" order processing within the same service level.

I have to say, that based on empirical evidence from my close to 300 submissions, the grading order seems much more random.

I have even had it happen to me that I would send 2 subs in the same shipping box, with the exact same service level and similar coins. They would both get checked in the same day, and one would finish a calendar month ahead of the other one! I never could figure out how that could happen with a first in, first out system. It's a mystery.

Another thought is a computerized system where the graders are pinged / emailed if a sub goes past the estimated turnaround time by 10 business days (2 weeks). That night prevent these sort of "lost in the sauce" submissions.

Fairlaneman

Just had grades post for a Econ Submission with Quarterly Special coin. Submission was entered at PCGS on Feb 7. Maybe the quarterly specials go a little quicker.

Ken

cameonut2011

@WingedLiberty1957 said:
Wow MS70 ... that's fantastic! 2 week turnaround for Modern.

I've always thought that PCGS should try for a "First In, First Out" order processing within the same service level.

I have to say, that based on empirical evidence from my close to 300 submissions, the grading order seems much more random.

I have even had it happen to me that I would send 2 subs in the same shipping box, with the exact same service level and similar coins. They would both get checked in the same day, and one would finish a calendar month ahead of the other one! I never could figure out how that could happen with a first in, first out system. It's a mystery.

From a business standpoint, I can see them giving some preference to dealers and collectors who submit frequently. Judging by some of the posts here (including from dealers), that doesn't seem like the case. I wonder if your order was simply lost.

No Headlights

Sent in my free 8 coin submission from my yearly renewal. Sent it in February. Done and back to me in three weeks.

asheland

I just sent a submission about 3 weeks ago and it's also an economy with 5 coins.
I fear how long mine may take.

Wabbit2313

@asheland said:
I just sent a submission about 3 weeks ago and it's also an economy with 5 coins.
I fear how long mine may take.

I prayed to the coin God's for you. Let's see if it gets an answer!

asheland

That toned Morgan is in there.

KellenCoin

Wowza

lablover

@wondercoin said:
"In the absence of information from PCGS, I have been attempting to imagine what might be wrong. I wonder if PCGS might have manpower issues in the grading office -- if perhaps a lot of their graders left and PCGS has been unable to hire new graders? I can't think of what else might be wrong."

WingedLiberty1957 - As jonruns just mentioned - why post speculative statements such as lot of graders leaving when you could simply avoid posting a thread like this all together and simply take the time to call PCGS Customer Service a couple times to know exactly what is going on? At this point, ask to speak to David Talk - he runs Customer Service and is quite competent. I have no doubt h can tell you exactly what the problem has been with your orders. Good luck and come back on this thread to update us all once you have had an opportunity to speak with Mr. Talk.

Wondercoin

Hey Mitch, You got some comment on the idea of grading fee reductions? Oh, and why should he "...avoid posting a thread like this ..." when it's 65+ days? Seems in order to me.

Let's be clear, the wait time for the op is totally unacceptable for the fees paid, don't you think?

Why should one have to call over and over and over to get something done. Good money was paid for the service and it should be handled with one call at the most, and on time or close to the time due. If I were using your services would I have to continually call to get something taken care of?

As an advisor (Member of Board of Experts) to PCGS perhaps you can help clear the situation up for WingedLiberty.

Just my opinion...

younique

Frustration builds for any customer not getting what they paid for. Sounds like a clear case for PCGS to somehow make this right regardless of why it happened. Moderator reads this, so its time for PCGS to reach out to their customer. Customers shouldn't have to beg for what they purchased. One call should be enough. Just my opinion.

My recent submission checked in 2/21 at modern service level was shipped 3/3. Couldn't be happier.

lablover

From a business standpoint, I can see them giving some preference to dealers and collectors who submit frequently. Judging by some of the posts here (including from dealers), that doesn't seem like the case. I wonder if your order was simply lost.

The policy states grading is handled in the order in which it was received, with consideration of the level submitted. If consideration is giving preference to "...dealers and collectors who submit frequently." then does that also affect the potential grades given? Not saying our host does, just saying of the potential conflict.

AMRC

The Eagles have landed!

justcollecting

Who's fault is it that the OP has to speculate. He has called, he has e-mailed and he now has to rattle some chains to get attention. For a supposed top notch organization like this things like this shouldn't happen. The listed turn around times should be some what accurate. When there is an issue like this, the submitter should be notified as to why there is a delay accompanied by an apology. Maybe we should have a poll as to how many times are acceptable that one should have to call to get the service that is advertised or for that matter any service. I know a lot of businesses that wouldn't survive with these type of practices. How long would you dealers last with practices like this. Maybe a temporary boycott is in order, that would let them catch up on their services and a reminder that we are the reason that they are where they are. Am I wrong in assuming that one should get what they pay for?

wondercoin

Lablover ... I gave the OP the very best advice I could, which was place a call to David Talk who runs Customer Service. That is what I would do in the same situation. I said to please report back here once he makes contact with David. I am confident the matter will be quickly resolved once that happens. The OP did not state that he was calling David after I suggested it. Obviously, I can't force him to do so.

As I write this, I see that I have an order open from early January involving (300) coins (closing in on 2 months old now). Do know what I learned in submitting coins to PCGS on a regular (and heavy) basis for the past 19 straight years. NEVER RUSH THE GRADERS - it generally does not work in your favor. If the order is open for about 4 months, I might say something. I know they are crazy busy this first quarter of 2017. I will wait like everyone else.

Wondercoin

ms70

@cameonut2011 said:

@WingedLiberty1957 said:
Wow MS70 ... that's fantastic! 2 week turnaround for Modern.

I've always thought that PCGS should try for a "First In, First Out" order processing within the same service level.

I have to say, that based on empirical evidence from my close to 300 submissions, the grading order seems much more random.

I have even had it happen to me that I would send 2 subs in the same shipping box, with the exact same service level and similar coins. They would both get checked in the same day, and one would finish a calendar month ahead of the other one! I never could figure out how that could happen with a first in, first out system. It's a mystery.

From a business standpoint, I can see them giving some preference to dealers and collectors who submit frequently. Judging by some of the posts here (including from dealers), that doesn't seem like the case. I wonder if your order was simply lost.

I fall into the "submit about once every two years" category, LOL..... I was truly shocked.