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Has anyone recently pulled a 1990 Frank Thomas NNOF card ?
spazzy
Posts: 592 ✭✭
I have been seeing more 1990 Topps Baseball showing up in unopened form be it racks, wax and cello. Has anyone got lucky or are those early boxes exhausted? Was wax boxes the better chance to find them?
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Wax boxes only, from east coast area and Michigan, was my understanding for the only possible source. Of course anyone with '90 Topps in any unopened form isn't going to tell you there's no chance of finding a NNOF in their offerings! I've tried a couple boxes (boy it gets old fast) and no luck thus far!
i have not
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I don't know if @BunchOBull is still hanging around, but he seemed to know a bit about the NNOF issue.
While we are at it, there is another card to look for--the George Bush president card. Anyone rip one of those from a pack/rack/vending/etc?
Same deal with the Bush card, I think random wax is the only way.
In 1990 I opened up so much of this stuff. Never even knowing that the George bush even existed.
We have an awesome thread about this very subject.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/709331/1990-topps-frank-thomas-nnof-revisited-introduction-to-my-theory/p1
Thar be the definitive thread!
I think the Bush in packs story has been debunked, hasn't it? The ones with the special coating were the official cards presented to the president, the ones without were backdoored from the factory and sold by a former employee.
Has anyone seen an autographed version of the Bush card, glossy or otherwise ?
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Al
Not according to BBCE if he has up to date info on this? He has the folllowing for wax cases/boxes/vending of 1990 topps baseball.
_**"Key Rookies: Frank Thomas, Sammy Sosa, Juan Gonzalez, Larry Walker, Bernie Williams
Key card possible: Frank Thomas (No Name on Front variation)
**
The Frank Thomas card (#414A)** was printed without his name on the front, as well as portions of the black borders being omitted, creating a scarce variation. Several additional cards in the set were subsequently discovered missing portions of the black borders or missing some of the black printing in the backgrounds of the photos that occured in the same printing that created the Thomas error. These cards are rarely seen and the Thomas card, for a newer issue, has experienced unprecedented growth as far as value. (Beckett.com)
Topps made a special card of President George Bush **with the 1990 design, and presented him with copies that were not meant for distribution, but mysteriously some made their way into general distribution. There are documented cases of collectors receiving this card in packs. A PSA 8 copy sold in September 2010 for $5,000. "_
There was PSA magazine article a few years back that basically made it pretty clear there was no way these the Bush President cards were packed out and the rumor that they were packed pulled was likely concocted by some dealers to move inventory
saucywombat@hotmail.com
Do you have a link to that article? I am sure BBCE would want to see that since they are advertising otherwise--hopefully not for the reason you suggest, but more misled themselves.
http://www.psacard.com/articles/articleview/7795/hobby-update-by-george-its-complicated-1990-topps-bush-baseball-card
http://www.psacard.com/articles/articleview/7796/psa-confirms-two-types-1990-topps-george-bush-baseball-cards
Thanks for the link man. I still think it is possible in distribution. In the article PSA says it is possible they got them from packs or set boxes. PSA is guessing some as well, but I think they believe it was possible. I realize its a 1 in a million chance per pack, but I think they are out there.
Did these dealers sit down and slowly pull those cards, one by one, from packs or factory sets? Some dealers may have done so, but logic tells me that most of them didn't. Why? Because they were getting fed the cards through the backdoor.
Well, I can confirm, there was no USA #1 Bush card in the Topps '90 set I bought back in 1990.
Is 2013 recent enough? That is when I pulled my last NNOF Thomas from a pack...after pulling 4 of them in 2009.
I've often wondered about the following scenario:
Person A buys the Frank Thomas NNOF PSA 9 on ebay for say $15K.
Person B spends up to $15K on 1990 Topps unopened cases trying to pull a NNOF.
When all is said and done, which person, A or B, will end up with more trips to the psych ward?
Wow. How many packs/boxes/cases/pallets of 1990 Topps did you open?
I wouldn't think too many. He has/had the correct boxes which contain the error cards so he was fairly confident Frank Thomas NNOF was sitting there just waiting for him. I believe he discusses this a little more in detail in that thread I linked earlier.
I see. Makes sense.
In 1990 I had my hands on the Bush card. Local dealer in Champaign IL had got a box out the back door from a Topps Employee weeks before Cards were released. He opened the box and made a display showing the cards. A few weeks later he got word it was valuable and they even did a story of him and the card in People Magazine. It was the talk of the town. Someone ended up suing him saying he agreed to sell him the card for $1 and he agreed and went to get the money and when he came back a day later wouldn't sell it to him. Never heard what ended up happening with it but the dealer was Lee Hull. I'm sue I could have bought it for $1 but at that particular time the cards weren't out yet so everyone just figured it was one of the cards in the set. Who new.
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The bold part makes me thing this might not be a true story. They guy had to leave to go get $1?
James
I found an article about the lawsuit.
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19900305&slug=1059335
I wonder how the law suit turned out?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
$1 + interest?
Great find on the article. I moved out of Champaign after HS in 1991, never heard what happened to the card. Lee closed his shop in 1992 and went on to coach HS baseball and teach. Just think if I wanted that card I could have had it for 15 cents.
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Back to the nnof, anyone ever pull one or know someone who did? I believe only early wax from north east. Prices have risen of late, but I still think it is an under appreciated card.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Yes they have. The last PSA 8 sold for over $5000 and last week a Beckett graded only "A" sold for $2500.
To each his own, but contrived rarities like the Bush card do nothing for me.
G
It
IS THIS LEGIT? I live in Massachusetts and just busted this from a box. Jammingdrummer36@gmail.com
Rich
Please help if you can?!!!
given the dot on the nameplate, I think thats usually a good sign of a possible real one as the good fakes leave off the surrounding borders but always forget the black dot on the nameplate.
Looks pretty good on the computer screen. Was it wax?? Did you get any other blackless cards?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Uh, if you truly just pulled it from wax, how could you have questions about authenticity?
No. This was in the last pack. I wish I got more!
The box was beat up. It still had the seal, and a lot of the packs were beginning to open on the back. I cant imagine anyone filling a 36ct box and just putting it in there for shits and giggles. I just thought there were no more left. And I trust the opinions on here. Might have worded it a bit wrong, but I did pull it. How much do you think it would cost me to grade it?
you can try at the standard level, given raw value and risk the upcharge if they deem it necessary depending on how it grades.
Im not sure what you mean. What is the standard level? And the upcharge depending on the grade right?
What do the go for Raw?
Who cares! Get that puppy slabbed! Nice pull.
Andy
Thanks man! I just want to be able to afford the upcharge.
Much less than they do graded. That question gets my spidey senses tingling.
I'm gonna deliver it in hand. I dont trust mail systems. All I'm saying is I'm not familiar with the grading charges, and I am a retired vet, so I dont make a lot of money. I just dont want to pay 33 bux and then have to pay 500 to get it back. That's what I mean. I have no question this is a true copy, i just hope i can afford it. Thays all i meant I live in mass and bought a box of 90 topps at the flea market. It was beat up, and a lot of the packs were showing wear, like the wax on the back was wearing off. It was in pack 36. 4th card in. I just want to be ABLE to afford it to grade it...know what I mean.?
I see how it would. But what I meant was will I be able to AFFORD to grade it. I'm not familiar with BVG and those guys. And I don't know what an upcharge is.
I'm sorry, but I'm becoming a "doubting Thomas" more and more with each post. I'd like clarification on what "4th card in" means. Was the card in the half of the pack closest to the gum or the half of the pack closest to the wax seal? There are other cards missing black ink that would have been on the same print sheet as the Thomas, also. Can you look through your other cards from the prior 35 packs that you opened from that box and post some photos of any others that are missing ink? I don't believe they're missing their names, but rather black ink in the borders. If you can find additional errors from the box that you opened, it supports the idea that the Thomas could be legit.
Buddy you are reading into this way too much. It was the 4th card in the last pack. Clarify that? Body all I'm doing is getting on this site and asking what I should do with this card. I don't care of your doubting Thomas or not look at the pictures make your own assessments. I have already gone for office from people on this site telling me it is absolutely legit. It came from a Box that was highly warn that I got from the flea market. And it had the original tops shrink wrap on the outside. But it was a 1990 tops Box And that is expected. I am only asking what I should do with the card. Should I get it graded how much would it cost to get it grated or should I sell it raw. You don't need to read into anything I'm writing I'm just getting on here asking professionals what I should do because I know not a professional. If you doubt it then don't read the post. If you don't doubt it help me out and direct me I when I should do have a nice night
I already looked. I only found 1 other thomas. With the name.
PSA will only upcharge you on grading fees if the grade of your card puts you in a higher service level and higher return postage situation. So it is actually a problem you want to have.
For example, if you use $499 as your declared value, the cost to grade the card would be $20 (economy). If the card gets a PSA 8 grade, it will become a $5,000 card and it has to move up in price for grading to $200 (super express), and a little increase for return shipping value too since more insurance will be needed to get it back to you.
@countdouglas
First off I was using speech to text to forgive me if I misspelled some words. Dude, why are you even asking for clarification on what number card it was, or gum, or others with similar errors I am now aware of. I came on this post asking First if the card is legit ( BEACUSE IVE NEVER HEARD OF ONE)! I thought it might be a resealed box. But it is not. I'm not selling the card, and I am not familiar with grading policies. I can give 2 damns about your DOUBTING THOMAS routine. I love in haverhill Massachusetts, they were distributed in the northeast district. You have questions, look at the pictures. To boot, on the BACK of the card, there is an ink spot by the T in Thomas. That is nearly impossible to fake. I am not an aggressive person, but if I come to a forum with legit questions, ( not all of us are professionals, or sit in our basement all day and rip packs). I saw the box, I bought the box, I got to the last pack and it was the fourth card from the top. Gum? No, the gum did not touch the card. And yes I did eat it, and it was effin gross. So please man, if you have constructive guidance for me, by all means,, I'm all ears. But if your gonna ask me how much GAS i used to get to the flea market, and how long it took me to open the pack, your nitpicking. I dont need that. I dont know what Upcharges are, and i see graded versions go for over 15k. All i want to know is will i be able to afford to grade it. It's that simple. If you dont want to answer, move on man, no one is making you type. I wish you well and have a good night....
I apologize for upsetting you. You are the one that originally queried if the card was legit. I'm trying to suss out as much information as I can before offering an opinion. It does matter which half of the pack that you found the card, as well as what other cards were before and after, as the collation of the sheets that the cards were cut from is something that those who fake packs do not often get correct. Also, there would almost certainly be other player's cards from that same box also missing black ink. It is highly unlikely that the only error card in the entire box would just happen to be the golden ticket. I will step back now and see what others have to add. Good night, and good luck.