Welcome to "Numismatic Gladiator" XII (Stork vs. TwoKopeiki) - the EAST ASIA DUEL
dadams
Posts: 376 ✭✭✭
Welcome to "Numismatic Gladiator" XII - the EAST ASIA DUEL
To see how the earlier competitions went check out the games index:
"Numismatic Gladiator" Cycle I Index: NG1 - NG10
"Numismatic Gladiator" Cycle II Index: NG11 - ?
Here now is our East Asia duel!
- Both contestants agreed to purchase a single coin from the assigned category of EAST ASIA
- The coin had to cost no more than $20.00 US either by auction or fixed price.
- Contestants agreed to buy their coins from either ebay or VCoins.
- Shipping was not included in the $20.00 limit.
- You can now vote on which coin you like best without knowing which coin belongs to whom. That will be revealed at the end.
- The person whose coin receives the most votes gets MAJOR bragging rights and a sigline trophy.
This cointest will run until FEB 19, 2017 ending at 10PM CST. By towel throw in and majority decision this duel was called on 2/13/2017.
Vote for whichever coin appeals to you most.
This need not be the one that is more monetarily valuable. Catalog and/or retail value should be weighed into the decision, of course, but this cointest is about overall desirability - eye appeal, history, design, etc. It is much more about collecting fun than "investment" value. -and if you are reading this please take the time to vote!
The coins are presented here in chronological order, in similar sized images (though note that the actual coins themselves may differ widely in physical size).
Hats off to our cointestants! May the "best" coin win!
Coin A: ILKHANID (PERSIAN MONGOLS) ABU SA'ID (AH 716-736) AR SILVER 2-DIRHAM, SHIRAZ MINT, AH 729 , ALBUM 2214 (TYPE G), DILER AB #525.
bought at VCoins from Cyrus Coins for $ 17.00
Message from the gladiator who bought Coin A:
I decided to take advantage of Mongolia being included in the list, taking the forums members back to the times of the Mongol Empire that existed during the 13th and 14th centuries and was the largest land empire in history. While originating in the steppes of Central Asia, the Mongol Empire eventually stretched from Central Europe to the Sea of Japan, extending northwards into Siberia, eastwards and southwards in the Indian subcontinent, Indochina, and the Iranian plateau, and westwards as far as the Levant and Arabia.
The coin is from the time when, with the establishment of the Yuan Dynasty by Kublai Khan, the acceleration of fragmentation of the Mongol Empire occurred and they fractured into four khanates including the Yuan dynasty, the Golden Horde, the Chagatai Khanate and Ilkhanate.
The coin, silver 2 Dirham minted under Abu Sa'id in 1328 (AH 729) comes from Ilkhanate. It's 3.19 grams and the obverse features the Arabic legend referring to the ruler's name and title inside the field with the mint below (Shiraz) with reverse featuring the kalima in the middle with names of 4 caliphs in the field.
Sadly, Abu Sa'id left no heirs and after his death in 1335 the Ilhanate disintegrated rapidly into several states with the most prominent one being the Jalayrid dynasty, ruled by descendants of Mukhali of Jalair.
Coin B: Japan Edo Period "Meiji 1shu-gin 明治一朱銀 川常" Square Silver Coin 1868 rare
bought at ebay from fujiyama for $ 20.00
Message from the gladiator who bought Coin B:
This coin was a great opportunity to get a less common variety of a coin type I know very little about--I got to learn more, and scored a bit of a bargain in the process.
The Japanese isshu-gin was the smallest silver denomination before the conversion to Western style coinage (gin means silver). They are reasonably common and not difficult to find in good condition, but this coin is one of the scarcer types, and was priced at nearly half of what was expected.
The isshu-gin were produced under two Emperors/three eras, from 1853-1869. This was the period after the opening of Japan by the arrival of Admiral Perry and there was a tremendous demand for a small denomination silver coin for trade. They were produced in abundance during the Kaei and Ansei eras (1853-1865), and a lesser extent into the Meiji era (during 1866-1869). Mintages were 150,000,000+ vs. 18,000,000+ respectively.
The Kaei/Ansei era coins can be found around $15-$17. The NGC price guide for XF puts these at $20 for a common Kaei/Ansei vs. $40 for the Meiji, which is a good proxy for the relative values (the NGC guide incorrectly shows the same picture for both varieties).
The isshu-gin minted in the Kaei and Ansei eras (both under the Emperor Komei) are 1.89 grams/.968 silver and are considered as a single type, though there are abundant calligraphy differences to distinguish varieties (some are quite scarce and pricey).
The Meiji era coins are 1.88 grams/.880 silver, and has it’s own specific calligraphy style on the character circled by the seller.
The larger characters on the ‘obverse’ are read vertically: 1, shu, gin (silver). On the ‘reverse’ the symbol at the top center means ‘Jo’ or guaranteed. The two vertically arranged symbols on the right are ‘Joze’ which represents the mint official. The two on the left are ‘Ginza’ or ‘silver mint’.
Thanks to both our Gladiators for their awesome coin purchases!!
and I'm sure the Gladiators would like some feedback/comments.
Comments
Coin B
This was a somewhat tough choice, as all the best NG contests usually are. Coin A (the medieval Persian/Mongol piece) wins for colorful history, and it's cool looking, too. I really felt like it deserved my vote, except it was outside my usual experience. That alone would not have prevented me voting for it, but I also arrived here carrying an inherent (positive) bias towards those cute little rectangular Japanese pieces, you see. I have always loved those. And this particular one also looks to have some nice toning. So Coin B captured my affection (and vote), but I must say Coin A probably deserved my vote a tiny bit more. I hope Coin A gets some of the love it deserves, and we have a close cointest.
As it often goes, there were two solid choices here. Tip o' the hat to both contestants.
Are we not naming the contestants anymore, Doug? I mean, who bought which coin has always been kept a mystery in these competitions, but this time I don't see either contestant's username mentioned at all?
Abstaining from voting due to extreme prejudice being one of the cointestants!
8 Reales Madness Collection
Although unintentional, the thought of a masked gladiatorial battle does/did have its appeal. Now that the cat is out of the bag, so to speak, I've revised the title to reveal your Gladiators.
I love the Japanese ingot! But, both are indeed cool.
My YouTube Channel
Very difficult choice!
Both are very interesting pieces but 'B' got my vote based on its intense eye appeal.
B
Went with A.
Looks like a lopsided victory though
.
I LOVE my competitor's coin, but will also abstain as a cointestant.
Stick a fork in me, I'm done!
I surrender!!!
Beautiful isshu-gin, Cathy! I would have voted for it, too. A well-deserved victory.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Just typed up my explanation for my voting for coin B, then realized I would just be plagiarizing LordM.
So, here is the reasoning, and also a proper APA citation.
LordM. (2017, February 10). RE: Welcome to "Numismatic Gladiator" XII - the EAST ASIA DUEL [Forum Comment] Retrieved from
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/11641226/#Comment_11641226
The votes are still coming in!!
8 Reales Madness Collection
Well folks, pound-for-pound I thought this was going to be a brawlers duel. I had every reason to think 2K was a contender but what we found instead was a bleeder and a fighter that was caught cold. On the updraft, 2K's stablemate and opponent, Stork, swooped in like a bird delivering a bolo punch that caught 2K cold. By Technical Decision of the Sanctioning Body . . .
Stork is hereby Champion and is awarded this sig line trophy:
At the time this duel was called on 2/13/2017 there had been 39 votes:
15% (6 votes) for Coin A
84% (33 votes) for Coin B
@TwoKopeiki and @Stork -- thanks to both of you for participating.
I hope you don't feel too bad Roman, because I thought your coin selection was a great choice! A little off the beaten path but full of history. I'm certain you succumbed to the visuals Coin B provided as well as familiarity.
I truly think @lordmarcovan did indeed state it best: I really felt like it deserved my vote, except it was outside my usual experience.
Nothing in the rules state that I have to be impartial and I did cast my own vote for your coin, but then again I got to spend quite a bit of time mulling over the entries. Should I have arrived here at this thread and with only a few minutes of reading I likely would have chosen Coin B as it is indeed overly more familiar.
I do wholeheartedly congratulate you on a bold choice and to Cathy on her decisive win.
-Doug
It's all in good fun, Doug. Thank you for hosting this round. And a thank you to my opponent - well fought! I'll definitely be up for a rematch in the future!
8 Reales Madness Collection
Wow, thanks!!!!!
I really liked Roman's coin too...and I kept waiting for the fourth quarter votes to kick in! A worthy coin indeed, talk about history, whew!
If I haven't said so yet, this _coin_test is awesome. I learn so much about coins outside my main focus...and this particular contest had me truly expanding my own area of interest.
Thank you so much for starting (hi LordM and Aethelred!) and continuing (hi Dadams) the contest.
Cathy
Coming back after vacation, I voted for A. After seeing that my vote didn't have much sway and being two days late, congratulations Cathy, definitely a beautiful (gin) coin. Great contests in which we all can learn much. Thanks to all.
Congratulations to Stork for your win and a great coin.
Congrats, Cathy, and better luck next time, Roman! At least you got a cool coin out of it.