Are Clark Gruber coins graded very lenient compared to other coins?
MorganMan94
Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have been looking into acquiring a Clark Gruber piece just to have and these pieces seem to be graded very lenient. I am looking at auctions and don't see how some of these got into straight graded holders. Are they graded to different standards due to rarity or are these just misses?
These are the three worst or so on the first few pages of Heritage, I haven't looked anywhere else.
All seem to have huge issues and I didn't even post others that had minor issues that could potentially detail other coins. Why is this? Does anyone know or have a guess?
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Yikes!
Well all three are very old holders, two are copper die trials and the QE really shouldn't be gradeable. I doubt if submitted today that these three would end up in problem free holders but in the time of their original submission I'd simply guess that they were net graded.
More to your question, I think the Territorials might get a bit of forgiveness but they really must be graded differently based on their crudeness. That does not mean that graffiti or other mechanical issues is necessarily forgiven as seen on these examples.
Latin American Collection
I would stick to a CAC coin for type.
Look at the difference.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/territorial-gold/territorial-and-fractional-gold/1861-5-clark-gruber-andamp-co-five-dollar-au50-pcgs-cac-k-6-r4/a/1189-6963.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/territorial-gold/territorial-and-fractional-gold/1860-2-1-2-clark-gruber-andamp-co-quarter-eagle-au58-pcgs-cac-k-1-r4/a/1143-6394.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/territorial-gold/territorial-and-fractional-gold/1861-10-clark-gruber-andamp-co-ten-dollar-au50-pcgs-cac/a/1122-3142.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/territorial-gold/territorial-and-fractional-gold/1861-5-clark-gruber-andamp-co-five-dollar-k-6-r4-vg10-pcgs-cac/a/1251-7345.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
The main reason I am wondering is this is the piece I am looking at and wondering if these can get into a straight holder can this one? Rim dings seem to be hit or miss as I have seen some this bad in a straight holder and if they are more forgiving on territorial I think a case could be made for this one being straight.
The three I picked out above are the worst but there are others I didn't post that should be details but are also straight graded.
that one seems to be in the right holder. i think if it were in a XF straight graded holder, it would sell for the same price.
@dcarr might be interested in this thread. I wonder if he has a nice collection of some of the old pieces.
I do agree with you, but it seems they grade a lot of these pretty lenient. If I do buy it it will remain in the same holder
I'm guessing the reason those are in graded holders is that the Genuine/Details Grade designation was not at option then, and perhaps the market was much more forgiving of problems on these. I seriously doubt they'd get a straight grade today when the option is there for the grading service to specify a details grade.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
It's been my impression that they are conservative on the one's I submit....
I say Lakesammman is ripe for a lynching.
Wow, those in the OP are jaw dropping!
Lakesammman's are sweet!
Yeah, these can on occasion be found in sweet condition, but expect to pay up for them. Here's a PCGS MS61 CAC $5 (not mine, cert removed to protect the current owner):
I loved the look of that MS61 when Doug Winter posted it to inventory
Latin American Collection
So you didn't buy it... a shame, it would have complemented your collection very well I think. But $15k...
I would be happy to have any example in my collection, the copper trials are neat.
Here's a nice copper version from the Garrett collection.
Strange - I can't see my posted pictures this AM......can you?
I can see them
I can see them now as well - are they being screened by someone??
YES! A thousand times YES. Thanks all for posting multi-proof! At least one gold pattern in a major collection sold over a decade ago was actually DAMAGED beyond belief yet it received a straight grade. I will not name the coin or the TPGS so believe it or not. It was not PCGS.