Two coins, two auction houses...edited for the final (?) story.
Stork
Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
Edited as I have had the coin conserved and with final outcome pictures.
No poll as the poll option appears to require an image URL instead of direct upload.
This is a variety rarity, as in first time I've seen one in years, and suddenly there were two. Both were up for auction closing within a day of each other in XF condition--an UNC is out of my range.
The auction for Coin A closes a day earlier, A has a slightly lower grade on the slab, but something whitish and hard to figure out. It also turns out coin A was mis-attributed on the slab, but was correctly described in the auction (though the slab was shown too).
Coin B looks a bit dipped out, but it could be photos. My few wins at that auction house have looked the same or better.
These are the auction photos I had to work with.
COIN A--PCGS XF-40 (and what does that white stuff look like?)
COIN B--PCGS XF-45
(Auctions are over, but I'm curious to see if people like what I liked better, given the photos).
Comments
Coin B. Not the best of toning, but otherwise OK.
Coin A just doesn't look right. Something is wrong, including what appears to be drek.
DPOTD
B
Given those photos and nothing else, I would go with coin B. I don't trust that white crud. The toning on coin A is nothing to write home about, so its not a positive.
I would go with B too.
If it wasnt for the white stuff i would have chosen A. But because of that....err in the side of caution...ill get B instead
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
B is the far superior of the two. Since the holder doesn't really add any value to it yet, you can crack out, let slowly tone, and re-grade.
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
A. B is too dipped out for my taste.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
I prefer the look of coin A with the caveat that you can send it back to PCGS for conservation under their guarantee. IMO it never should have been slabbed with a straight grade with that crud on it.
Without any doubt.
I have doubt about this. I think the color of B may be due to the silver purity. I've seen lots of Asian coins with that 'billon' look to it. I have Chinese "dollar" coins that have that light tissue toning, and they look very similar to those pictured above. And, my coins are real because my Mom's family took them from China when they escaped during the civil war. I remember about 10 years ago or so when she sat me down, took out a small bundle of tissue, unwrapped it, and gave me the coins as if it was her most precious thing to give. My father-in-law recently bought me a 12-piece set of silver rounds commemorating the Qing Dynasty from the National Museum in Beijing -- and those silver rounds also look 'billon' to me. Same look. Typical of the region, I guess.
They just do not tone the same as you're used to seeing from British, German, Austrian or even US silver pieces.
And, coin B is also far more lustrous than A.
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
My objection to B is that it is probably not original. It seems to have been dipped. I am not sure what your coins being real has to do with other's personal taste for specific coins.
Also it is obvious that B is "far more lustrous than A". It got that way by artificial means.
Tough choice. Personally, I like the coin A and would crack it and remove the white deposit with acetone (I've seen these white powdery spots before and acetone seems to take care of them). Coin B I would crack out and store it raw until it develops some skin. Even so, the toning is not going to look as original as coin A.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Well, my thoughts pretty much touched on everything you all are mentioning.
But, I had the nagging feeling that if I skipped bidding on A , then B might get away from me. B was for sale in an auction located in Japan, and many, if not most, of my bids there have been blown away even with the favorable exchange rate. As I REALLY want one of this variety that was my deciding factor. That, and I've been wanting the XF range grade.
I did bid on A, and won it. And, the white gunk is pretty gunky. I plan to take the coin to Baltimore with me this Spring and ask for it to be taken care of under the guarantee. I generally liked the look of the toning as well, and as for the skin on B I just couldn't tell if it was the photography or if it would be dull vs. lustrous in real life.
B also sold for about 12% more than A--not knowing how much higher it might have gone with if I'd actually been bidding, so in reality I easily could have paid 15% or more to get it. That is taking auction fees/money fees/shipping into consideration.
It really boiled down to bidding on A and if that failed, then gunning hard for B with a nuclear bid. But, I got A and though the white stuff is very annoying I got to use my 'nuclear bid allowance' on something else (will post once arrived).
Even so, this is a fantastic variety (M4/1871, small size and 21 mm beaded circle/2 spine) and I'm happy to have it. Please excuse the fuzziness of the photos...I'm still waiting on my new lenses for my glasses...
and a close up of the 'gunk'. Looks raised up between the design elements when tilted. Can't get a photo of that.
This coin can be conserved. Perhaps worth a shot
@Yorkshireman:
My comments were meant to say that I think coin B is fine in terms of originality because it has a very similar look to other stuff that are also original.
But, of course, this is just a slightly educated assessment...
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I would have advised you to try and find the PCGS images from the cert numbers, maybe one or both owners had Trueviewed them, or worst case scenario you would have seen the Secure Plus images that might have shed some light into it, but it's too late.
Conservation is the first thought that crossed my mind. PCGS has its own now, you don't need to send it to NCS.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
Geez Dimitri, that would have been too sensible
, and really what I should have done. Should have posted here BEFORE the auctions!
I just got my other lots from the auction and the photos did not do them full justice. Have a feeling I would have been quite happy with B. Oh well. 'A' will be perfectly acceptable if PCGS will take care of the crud...who knows how much B would have sold for though if I'd been a bidder too. Will have to go with 'I like what I got and I'm not going to worry about the could-have-beens'.
PCGS Image for coin B
Just a word of caution on using PCGS conservation for this coin. In my own experience they will just dip the entire coin. I'd take 2K's suggestion and locally hit the spots with acetone, using a q-tip. This may also lighten up the areas around where the gunk was but will be preferable to an all white, XF coin. That combo is never attractive to me.
End of the story... for now.
This coin was mislabeled AND had that crud (visible on the TV). The coin was sent via a dealer for consideration of
fixing the gunk as well as the label as it has the wrong type (it's the 4.a2 aka small size with 21 mm circle aka small size with 2 spines overlapped). The Y#4 is the large size, which has the spines look (almost) but is a different sized coin. (This one was slabbed while PCGS was using Y#s apparently. The other coin above was after they switched to the JNDA...even better).
Anyway, I figured it was a no brainer for the white gunk to come off (hoping not for a total dip job) and the mechanical error on the label fixed.
Sadly, the coin was returned with neither item addressed. As I ended up having something else needing conservation (a raw coin) and ended up sending it ATS for conservation and then grading.
The grade remained the same. The gunk was washed away (probably was an easy job, but it's not a coin I wanted to mess up), and now it's in a slab properly labeled. I wish NGC would get up to par using JNDA and/or Y#s on the label, and ID the varieties, and go back further in time...but oh well. This one at least is right (though I have a couple of theirs that are wrong too!)
Here it is in its new slab (probably aught to leave it free of plastic as it's not MS...but ATS insists on slabbing anything that has NCS work done if an eligible type).
Much better.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
I think that's a great resolution to the story. You can always cross it later if you really need to.
looks much better now
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
I think the coin looks great! But this seems like so much hassle. Too bad you had to go ATS for a good outcome.
My current "Box of 20"