Hotel Room Burglary at FUN Show

astrorat

This was shared with the Bust Half Nut Club. Please be on the lookout.

Hotel Room Burglary-Stolen Coins-Ft.Lauderdale
Wed, 01/11/2017 - 8:41am — ncic
Ft. Lauderdale police are investigating a hotel room burglary which resulted in the loss of over $40,000 in coins. The victim, a collector, was attending the recent FUN show when the offense occurred.

Stolen coin list:

1 01C 1864 Judd-335 NGC MS65 185472-005,
2 50C 1795 O-103a NGC VF30 3809196-015,
3 50C 1808 O-110 PCGS XF45 33543154,
4 50C 1809 O-110 PCGS XF40 33543155,
5 50C 1809 O-111 PCGS AU55 33543156,
6 50C 1812 O-104a PCGS AU58 81469525,
7 50C 1814 O-103 PCGS AU58,
8 50C 1817 O-108a PCGS VF35 33543158,
9 50C 1818 O-113 PCGS AU55 33543159 ,
10 50C 1822 O-105 PCGS AU58 29293087,
11 50C 1822 O-113 PCGS AU53,
12 50C 1823 O-110 NGC CAC AU58 3809010-016,
13 50C 1824 O-117 PCGS AU55 33543160,
14 50C 1827 O-132 PCGS AU58 81612459,
15 50C 1827 O-144 PCGS AU53 82237716,
16 50C 1829 O-102 PCGS AU58 82139155,
17 50C 1829 O-105 PCGS CAC AU58 32177593,
18 50C 1830 O-112 PCGS AU55 81318215,
19 50C 1836 O-121 PCGS VF20 31445403

Anyone with information contact:

Doug Davis 817-723-7231 Doug@numismaticcrimes.org

georgiacop50

Floriduh...ain't it great?

CascadeChris

Ouch. This is unusual. Typically it's dealers who get victimized. I wonder if all the coins were bought at the show or if he was a vest pocket dealer and he was seen buying or selling

ms70

What hotel?

Moldnut

Sad to hear. Did the victim leave all that in an unattended room?

astrorat

I only know the info posted above.

mozin

This is why I no longer attend major coin shows in dangerous cities. So sorry for his loss.

coin22lover

@mozin said:
This is why I no longer attend major coin shows in dangerous cities. So sorry for his loss.

Agreed...South Florida is very over rated. I'd like to see FUN held somewhere like Pensacola.

ms70

It would be cool if upon receiving verification of them being stolen, PCGS could have those cert numbers show up as reported stolen on the cert verification page.

Barndog

ouch. Some rare ones in there.

DoubleJCoins

@ms70 I agree. I feel like that would help prevent them from being sold again on any big market place or auction without being caught. The only problem would be if the person who stole the coin sold them to an unsuspecting customer who then later tried to sell the coin. Either way I believe that some sort of action from the tpgs would be very useful.

ricko

This is different... and a good reason to use hotels with 'in room' safes....I hope the thieves are caught... I would like to know more details though...the security professional in me always wants details...Cheers, RickO

Outhaul

Inside job.

2ndCharter

Agreed...South Florida is very over rated. I'd like to see FUN held somewhere like Pensacola.

I stayed at the Hilton Marina - no problems, was very comfortable there and was roaming around the neighborhood at 10:00 at night and never felt any concerns. By the way, next year's FUN show will be in Tampa and the following three years - back in Orlando.

TPRC

very saddened to hear this.

drddm

What a shame. Very sorry for the collector who lost those coins.

messydesk

@ms70 said:
It would be cool if upon receiving verification of them being stolen, PCGS could have those cert numbers show up as reported stolen on the cert verification page.

I mostly agree with this, but I think a "stolen" flag would have to be predicated on the existence of a police report filed by the person reporting them stolen. Otherwise, imagine the following scenario:

1. Seller lists some coin on eBay
2. Scammer 1 bids and buys the coin
3. Scammer 1's partner, Scammer 2 flags it as stolen.
4. Scammer 1 pays and waits for the coin to be flagged "out for delivery," then notifies seller that the coin is coming up having been stolen, in hopes that the seller doesn't a paper trail of the coin's provenance.
5. PayPal reverses the payment and return of the coin to scammer 2.

Maybe a bit far-fetched, but wherever there's a system, someone's going to try to figure out how to cheat it.

Meanwhile, use your room safes. I hope the coins are recovered.

oih82w8

I have not been to a FUN show, or any other show that would warrant an overnight hotel stay. But I am fairly certain that this type of thing (robbery) happens all of the time, some more pronounced than others. Definitely a sad story which hopefully recovers some if not all of the coins in the OP.

bestday

Poor judgment on collector .. inside job tipping off thieves .. coins will be fenced.. cracked out .. resold at 25 -35 cents on the dollar........ shame some people too trusting to keep such large money coins unsecured. in a hotel room .

Bet some maid spilled the knowledge of coins stored in room

lkeigwin

Man, that's a damn shame. I know the collector and he's a fine man and longtime BHNC member.

The motel where he was staying is 5 miles from the show. He and his friend/fellow collector must have been followed. Or maybe the thieves were hanging out at the inn and just got lucky on their haul.

They broke into both rooms while the two were away having dinner. Hotel surveillance video shows the thieves with his roller bag which also contained his passport, visa, checkbook, and cell phone.

There are many R4's and R5's in the stolen coin list. Looks to be well north of $40k. Heartbreaking.
Lance.

craZ4coins

@ms70 said:
It would be cool if upon receiving verification of them being stolen, PCGS could have those cert numbers show up as reported stolen on the cert verification page.

@DoubleJCoins said:
@ms70 I agree. I feel like that would help prevent them from being sold again on any big market place or auction without being caught.

Fine and dandy but you both ignore the obvious possibility (perhaps likelihood) that the thief will crack 'em out, modify a bit (doctoring for purposes of changing, not improving, appearance) and then sell raw or have re-slabbed (in a series of submissions by different persons).

Jeez, I must have a criminal mind.

logger7

I would just do everything possible to keep up the heat like Leidman did after his theft. When I think of my esoteric rarities being stolen I think who would do such a thing? How would they fence them because buyers are a small circle especially better days and higher grades like that.

NGC coins are imaged: https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/3809010-016/

Walkerfan

Those are some nice coins. What a shame. You can't be too careful these days. I hope they catch the creep.

TomB

My gut feeling is that the collector was followed from the show and then, when the coins were left alone, the thieves went in for the score. This isn't so hard as one might think given that quite a few collectors wear the coin badge credentials when they leave shows.

At one FUN show I was in an elevator at the hotel and a collector and his wife were in there, as well. The collector still had his FUN ID on and when the doors to the elevator closed I casually mentioned to the couple that they had been at the coin show. They both jumped back from me and looked at me like they thought I was going to attack them. I then told them that I could tell because he never took his ID off and that keeping it on was quite dangerous. I also let them know that I waited until the elevator doors were closed so that no one else in the lobby would hear me mention he was at the show. He took off his ID, but neither of them seemed comfortable with me in the elevator after that moment.

craZ4coins

@logger7 said:
I would just do everything possible to keep up the heat like Leidman did after his theft. When I think of my esoteric rarities being stolen I think who would do such a thing? How would they fence them because buyers are a small circle especially better days and higher grades like that.

NGC coins are imaged: https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/3809010-016/

.....

Outside of the pattern coin, the only MS piece, these do not appear to be "esoteric rarities". They are a gathering of hi-grade circulated bust half dollars. Crack 'em, throw in a rock tumbler for a few minutes and away you go.

I know Julian well and was a contributor to his reward fund. His case was much different - more coins, higher value, stolen by B&E a parked car while dining on way back from a show (he was followed a long distance), prompt FBI involvement, coins unloaded intact (in original slabs), etc.

If the hotel security cameras didn't ID the perps, the crooks win here.

DoubleEagle59

That is just terrible news.

I wonder though and in all seriousness I'm not making light of this situation, but I wonder how many times coins have been stolen while the owner is out eating.

I mention it because how many times has a dealer left a coin show, got on the highway and then stopped for lunch, leaving his inventory in the car unattended, while the crooks ransack the loot from the car.

DON'T leave your merchandise UNATTENDED!!

In this case, order room service for Pete's sake and watch Judge Judy on the boob tube.

Greeniejr

@TomB said:
My gut feeling is that the collector was followed from the show and then, when the coins were left alone, the thieves went in for the score. This isn't so hard as one might think given that quite a few collectors wear the coin badge credentials when they leave shows.

At one FUN show I was in an elevator at the hotel and a collector and his wife were in there, as well. The collector still had his FUN ID on and when the doors to the elevator closed I casually mentioned to the couple that they had been at the coin show. They both jumped back from me and looked at me like they thought I was going to attack them. I then told them that I could tell because he never took his ID off and that keeping it on was quite dangerous. I also let them know that I waited until the elevator doors were closed so that no one else in the lobby would hear me mention he was at the show. He took off his ID, but neither of them seemed comfortable with me in the elevator after that moment.

TomB you are spot on. I was always taught that outside the bourse, our IDs are better known as "rob me badges." Things have become so bad that it is almost worth it for show organizers to tell people at registration to please remove your badge upon leaving the bourse room. If someone really wants to hit someone and you are there target, there is very little you can do. At least a little discretion will dissuade the half hearted criminal.

BustHalfBrian

I've owned at least a couple of the coins in that group. It smells like an inside job to me, too. Please update us when these scumbags are caught!

grip

Are there cameras inside the room?

BryceM

Just FYI, most in-room "safes" can be defeated in 30 seconds or less (YouTube it). Hotel staff often have the override codes and the rest can easily be pried open. Don't trust them. Your best defense is complete anonymity, keeping your valuables on-person, situational awareness, and a mild case of paranoia.

Walkerfan

@Greeniejr said:

@TomB said:
My gut feeling is that the collector was followed from the show and then, when the coins were left alone, the thieves went in for the score. This isn't so hard as one might think given that quite a few collectors wear the coin badge credentials when they leave shows.

At one FUN show I was in an elevator at the hotel and a collector and his wife were in there, as well. The collector still had his FUN ID on and when the doors to the elevator closed I casually mentioned to the couple that they had been at the coin show. They both jumped back from me and looked at me like they thought I was going to attack them. I then told them that I could tell because he never took his ID off and that keeping it on was quite dangerous. I also let them know that I waited until the elevator doors were closed so that no one else in the lobby would hear me mention he was at the show. He took off his ID, but neither of them seemed comfortable with me in the elevator after that moment.

TomB you are spot on. I was always taught that outside the bourse, our IDs are better known as "rob me badges." Things have become so bad that it is almost worth it for show organizers to tell people at registration to please remove your badge upon leaving the bourse room. If someone really wants to hit someone and you are there target, there is very little you can do. At least a little discretion will dissuade the half hearted criminal.

Agreed. No way in hell would I have left $40k in coins alone in a hotel room.

amwldcoin

@Greeniejr said:

@TomB said:
My gut feeling is that the collector was followed from the show and then, when the coins were left alone, the thieves went in for the score. This isn't so hard as one might think given that quite a few collectors wear the coin badge credentials when they leave shows.

At one FUN show I was in an elevator at the hotel and a collector and his wife were in there, as well. The collector still had his FUN ID on and when the doors to the elevator closed I casually mentioned to the couple that they had been at the coin show. They both jumped back from me and looked at me like they thought I was going to attack them. I then told them that I could tell because he never took his ID off and that keeping it on was quite dangerous. I also let them know that I waited until the elevator doors were closed so that no one else in the lobby would hear me mention he was at the show. He took off his ID, but neither of them seemed comfortable with me in the elevator after that moment.

TomB you are spot on. I was always taught that outside the bourse, our IDs are better known as "rob me badges." Things have become so bad that it is almost worth it for show organizers to tell people at registration to please remove your badge upon leaving the bourse room. If someone really wants to hit someone and you are there target, there is very little you can do. At least a little discretion will dissuade the half hearted criminal.

At the Dalton,Ga. show security promptly reminds dealers to remove their ID badge if it is on when they are leaving the show.

291fifth

@TomB said:
My gut feeling is that the collector was followed from the show and then, when the coins were left alone, the thieves went in for the score. This isn't so hard as one might think given that quite a few collectors wear the coin badge credentials when they leave shows.

At one FUN show I was in an elevator at the hotel and a collector and his wife were in there, as well. The collector still had his FUN ID on and when the doors to the elevator closed I casually mentioned to the couple that they had been at the coin show. They both jumped back from me and looked at me like they thought I was going to attack them. I then told them that I could tell because he never took his ID off and that keeping it on was quite dangerous. I also let them know that I waited until the elevator doors were closed so that no one else in the lobby would hear me mention he was at the show. He took off his ID, but neither of them seemed comfortable with me in the elevator after that moment.

At the Pittsburgh ANA show in 2004 I recall seeing a collector/dealer walking on the street near the convention center carrying a large case, obviously filled with coins. He was wearing several badges which identified him as a coin show attendee. Never wear anything that identifies you as a collector or dealer when outside the show itself.

golden

Anyone know what hotel?

roadrunner

An early bird or security room badge only costs $75-$100 for the entire show last I knew. Cheap insurance if you don't have your coins locked up in someone's bourse floor case. I often placed my coins with a dealer I knew.

Goldbully

Read this over at Coin Community Forum from Joeysanders627......

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=43970

**Since I own a few hotels and motels, I thought I would chime in.

1. What kind of locks does the place have? Some can be easily hotwired with a simple pen.

2. If there was no sign of a break in, it could be because of what I wrote above, or it was a member or members of the staff. Housekeepers and other staff are notoriously underpaid by the motels owned by foreigners.

3. It is very easy for motels and hotels to make manager keys. These keys unlock all doors. Managers get them as well as housekeepers. See the problem now? Never keep any important items in a motel or hotel that does not have safes and a camera system. All my buildings have at least 40 security cameras installed. Many of my security systems were installed by cops that moonlighted.

4. Could be an insurance scam. You never know.

5. The best advice I can give is never ever keep forty thousand dollars worth of anything in a place which is not owned and operated by you. You don't know who works there and what has happened in that place in the past. There are just too many unknowns. If you are a coin dealer and have a bank account with a national bank, see if they will give you access to a safe deposit box for a few days for a minimal charge.

6. Also, this press release is limited. Was the person burglarized as he was in the room or did this happen when he left the room?

If he left his room, that person should never have left their coins there. If he was in the room, he should have locked the deadbolt. **

TopographicOceans

Hotel room safes aren't that big, nor are they safe

Since guest can change the passwords the hotel needs the ability to open the safe if the guest checks out and leaves the safe locked.

So there is a master password, which can be a simple 00000 or 12345 if they don't change the manufacturers default pass code.

But remember there are hotel workers on site that can open a safe in any guests room.

logger7

I would be employing a sharp private eye paid on performance here; doing a thorough search of the hotel background and history as well as their employees to try to connect the dots on this crime. Put out a reward offer. Florida and neighboring states are high population areas however the dedicated Bust half community is pretty tight. No serious dealer, pawn shop or collector is going to buy a $500 plus Bust half without doing their research and they all want them certified if they are going to pay strong for those. Flea markets and pawn shops may be common venues for trying to sell hot items, but it is double edged as no one wants to get caught holding the bag as an accessory to a crime.

Goldbully

@lkeigwin said:
Man, that's a damn shame. I know the collector and he's a fine man and longtime BHNC member.

The motel where he was staying is 5 miles from the show. He and his friend/fellow collector must have been followed. Or maybe the thieves were hanging out at the inn and just got lucky on their haul.

They broke into both rooms while the two were away having dinner. Hotel surveillance video shows the thieves with his roller bag which also contained his passport, visa, checkbook, and cell phone.

There are many R4's and R5's in the stolen coin list. Looks to be well north of $40k. Heartbreaking.
Lance.

Which hotel, Lance?

Cannot find this story anywhere via Google.

How did you find this out?

Cougar1978

Sad to hear. I hope he had insurance against that....

You can't let coins out of your sight or allow yourself be distracted when at a show (or traveling to one) unless locked up in cases at your table. Even then not 100 pct safe.

If driving go thru drive thrus after sure not being followed. Learn to eat in car while driving, etc.

Be wary of individuals making seemingly innocent screwball requests (like on a plane) that would separate u from your coins while traveling. Refuse them.

nencoin

@lkeigwin said:

The motel where he was staying is 5 miles from the show. He and his friend/fellow collector must have been followed. Or maybe the thieves were hanging out at the inn and just got lucky on their haul.

This surprises me. I was assuming they were at one of the two or three hotels that were in walking distance and they simply were followed from the show. It's happened before where dealers are followed to their hotels, very foolishly leave their coins alone (and uninsured) in their rooms, and go out to dinner.

I think it would have been pretty difficult, though certainly not impossible, for someone to follow a rental car out of a parking garage or follow an Uber from the front of the convention for five miles to a hotel then follow the person in and up to their floor to find out the room number.

Tough loss. I hope something breaks in the case.

dbtunr

aren't there some very small GPS devices that you could secretly slip in with your coins or luggage then track via your cell phone? I think you can even set up a geo fence alarm if the item moves. If I was a dealer or collector walking around at a show with a bunch of coins, I would invest in one of those.

amwldcoin

I don't believe what you say is true. I had a friend that had a job with one of those hotel safe companies. He was oncall to go open the safe when someone forgot the password they programed into the safe. I would think there would be a huge liability for any hotel if they were able to open the safes!

@TopographicOceans said:
Hotel room safes aren't that big, nor are they safe

Since guest can change the passwords the hotel needs the ability to open the safe if the guest checks out and leaves the safe locked.

So there is a master password, which can be a simple 00000 or 12345 if they don't change the manufacturers default pass code.

But remember there are hotel workers on site that can open a safe in any guests room.

1630Boston

'Who' has access to re set a room safe is probably somewhat dependent on the quality of the room that the safe is in, JMO

TopographicOceans

@amwldcoin said:
I don't believe what you say is true. I had a friend that had a job with one of those hotel safe companies. He was oncall to go open the safe when someone forgot the password they programed into the safe. I would think there would be a huge liability for any hotel if they were able to open the safes!

@TopographicOceans said:
Hotel room safes aren't that big, nor are they safe

Since guest can change the passwords the hotel needs the ability to open the safe if the guest checks out and leaves the safe locked.

So there is a master password, which can be a simple 00000 or 12345 if they don't change the manufacturers default pass code.

But remember there are hotel workers on site that can open a safe in any guests room.

You can watch this on YouTube

Or maybe this will convince you

lkeigwin

@golden said:
Anyone know what hotel?

Clarion Inn.

Barndog

I take my valuables with me when I go to dinner or wherever. A PCGS box inside of a backpack is way better than a PCGS box inside of an unoccupied hotel room's safe.

pennyannie

@mozin said:
This is why I no longer attend major coin shows in dangerous cities. So sorry for his loss.

You can get robbed anywhere. I got ripped off on the house I am remolding in OK. A fence and a gate which was on the list would have most likely kept it from happening. 13k in tools and ammo. They got caught because I had the serial numbers. 2 got probation and one got 13 years when he violates his 4 years of intense probation. A lot of crime can be avoided .

joebb21

Anyone walking out of a building that has a coins show with any type of bag or suitcase i would assume is coming from the coin show. Badge or not its easy to guess.

Further, the likelihood is that if you have a bag, then you have something inside it.

Scary stuff. Most important is never leave your stuff alone

dsessom

I agree that this is likely an inside job - or it was at least another collector that followed them from the show. Only a very small fraction of the general population are coin collectors, and understand what they are worth, and how to possibly profit from stealing them. It is unlikely that it was just some hood off the street looking to smash-and-grab.

I sincerely feel for the victim, That is a big loss, and I hope they can find the perp, or at least recover the coins.
Being a former police officer, I am naturally a bit security conscious and tend to notice things like people following me, or acting in an odd way. I am licensed to carry a pistol in my home state, so if I travel by car, I always check to see if my destination, and states I travel through recognize my states license. I never leave highly valuable coins (or other valuables) in a hotel room. If I go out to eat, they go with me. I have a very good 2-way alarm system on my vehicle and use it every day and night. If the alarm goes off, my alarm FOB beeps and even indicates door open, or trunk open, or glass sensor, or shock sensor, etc.

I guess my point is that one can never be too secure when it comes to guarding your property, and your life.

Greeniejr

Joe made an excellent point that typically if you are walking out of a coin show with a bag or case, it is safe to assume there is something in it. The bourse itself and the security room are the safest places to have your coins. PPI does an amazing job of security where to the best of my recollection, there has not been a major heist after hours in recent memories. One of the many benefits of having a good relationship with a dealer is that if you ask them nicely, many will let you lock up a box or 2 of your coins at their booth. As long as you have an understanding of when you can pick them up, it works great. If you want to take your coins with you to your hotel so you can discuss and share with friends, that is fine but you are taking a risk. If you take this risk. Never ever ever ever ever ever leave the coins unattended. If you must take them with you, then they should be on your person at all times. They should never be more than arms distance from you or a trusted friend with the exception of when you are sleeping. While this is not perfect as per some of the robberies in the past in Orlando, you should take the coins from the airport, to the security room, keep them in the show until you are ready to leave and hop in a cab/uber/lyft/limo back to the airport to get out of town. Every deviation from that is another layer of risk and potential for disaster.