Original 1921 Peace Dollar Reverse Bronze Cast with Broken Sword Design
MedalCollector
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It appears that the original 1921 peace dollar reverse bronze cast by Anthony de Francisci showed up on ebay. Below the claws of the eagle is the broken sword, which was modeled out of the final design after some resistance to the symbolism. It's approximately 7.5 inches in diameter, according to the seller.
The seller closed the auction early. After I saw this, I sent an offer for it in hopes that it wasn't sold. Unfortunately, it had sold to someone for $500 (much less than my offer, which was everything that I could offer). The seller did state that he received some more money after he told the buyer of this. I am not at all against contacting a seller to end an auction, but I was disappointed I didn't have the opportunity to purchase this one.
What is everyone's thoughts on this particular piece? It seems very likely that it is legitimate. And from the little information available online, it seems like this cast also matches up to the existing story line of the modeling and creation of the first peace dollars.
These are the seller's photos:
Comments
That is fantastic!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
That appears to be a "Holy Cow!" piece that was essentially given away.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
It's a legit pic of a cast?. Looks good, also falls in the "no way", ebay, $500 category.
If authentic, that's a pretty exciting find!
--Severian the Lame
If authentic, it's enormously important and should be worth many multiples of that price. Look at that feather detail!
I hope someone here snagged it !
Great Googley Moogley!
Wish I had known about this auction. If it is legitimate, it will be magnetic.
Wonder who made him the offer that he just couldn't refuse.
Collector, occasional seller
Hello, Dan Carr I hear your name being called......
Well, just Love coins, period.
Dan Carr 1920 High Relief with Sword Peace Dollar anyone?
Thanks for posting!
By "magnetic" I assume that means that it will attract attention, not magnets ?
I've seen a photo on the internet of the plaster sculpt of this. When was that photo taken and what was the source ?
Is that plaster still in existence, or when was the last time it saw the light of day ?
Photo of plaster, from this web page:
usacoinbook.com/encyclopedia/coin-designers/anthony-de-francisci/
No, the casts were made in New York under direction of James Fraser.
(See "Renaissance of American Coinage 1916-1921" for details and sources of information.)
Why would this be holed?
Detail is fantastic for sure.
That seems more likely to me. Do you have any additional information on your research ?
I would think that de Francisci would have had bronzes made. Although possible, it seems unlikely that Fraser would have made de Francisci's iron/bronze casts.
I am not aware of any modern galvanos that were cast iron. Cast iron was used at one time, but cast bronze and electrolytic bronze yields better replication of detail.
Incredible!
Really like the High Relief Eagle! Dan, put me first on the list for one in silver/gold.
Well, just Love coins, period.
What an amazing find!
Wow...if authentic would be a museum piece. Incredible.
I would guess the hole was drilled some years after the fact so as to hang on a wall.
The question is not why would this piece be holed, but rather why would this piece be?
Ca5man,
RE: "My research indicates Anthony de Francisci designed the original molds, plaster and bronze and delivered them to Washington DC?"
You are partially correct. Suggest you read the book. All the sources are provided. Galvanos were not commonly used for making reductions in that era - the artists had casts in brass/bronze or iron made. The metal was tough enough to tolerate movement of the tracing stylus.
Very cool!
My YouTube Channel
nice item, i like
There's a fascinating story there somewhere.
Looks like y'all need to search eBay a bit more frequently
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Is that a wink-wink?
Roger, do you know when the last time the plasters were seen or photographed or their whereabouts today? I'm super curious and you are the research king.
Read the book....You will learn the details from the source.
If I were to see this listed the same time whoever bought it did the fight would have been on.
What an AMAZING find . Way freaking cool!!! Man o man!!!!
So we have to buy your book to find out a few bits of info? Can't you just answer a few questions without trying to push your book? I agree it's probably a good read and might get it but come on. Can't you just answer a few questions pertaining to this?
Authors make money selling books. That's the way it works.
.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I would just like to know why the broken sword was eliminated.......Cheers, RickO
The intent behind the broken sword was to symbolize end of conflict.
But a NY newspaper responded to a Treasury Dept announcement of the coin and its features by asserting that, to the military, a broken sword is a symbol of defeat. When one surrenders the victor breaks the sword and returns it to the defeated.
The public widely reacted to the news article and a change to the lone hub was quickly made.
Lance.
As I understand it, if the new coin was to be minted before the end of the year, there was not enough time to create a new plaster or bronze without the broken sword. So de Francisci watched while Morgan ground the sword off of the one and only master hub. It would have been necessary for them to then create a master die from that hub so that new details could be engraved on the master die in the area where the sword was removed. This resulted in more hubbing passes than normal, which probably caused the feather details on the struck coins to be fuzzier and softer than they would have been otherwise.
That seems to match my understanding of what transpired.
So what was that about iron casts made by Fraser in New York ?
I don't think that actually happened. Or maybe that was a different time and a different coin ?
This, and/or something similar, is probable.
That indeed would be a wonderful idea!
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RE: "So we have to buy your book to find out a few bits of info? Can't you just answer a few questions without trying to push your book? I agree it's probably a good read and might get it but come on. Can't you just answer a few questions pertaining to this?"
No; and no one is "pushing" a book.
Not because of money. The subject and events are more nuanced than can be presented in this type of forum. If individuals care to understand the historical events, then they should also be willing to expend a minute amount of effort to learn what occurred. Nothing has to be purchased - ANA loans book for free; your local library can get a copy for you to read; a couple of coin shops appear to have copies "on the counter" for patrons to browse.
Those "bits of info" that some attempt to trivialize, took months - sometimes years - to locate, verify, organize, analyze and publish.
I realize that, but can you let us know on what page number(s) the relevant documentation concerning Fraser New York Peace Dollar iron casts can be found ?
@lkeigwin... Thanks.... I knew about the broken sword for defeated enemies....and did not know why it was used.. this answers the question. Cheers, RickO
What a beautiful piece!
I never knew about the broken sword design before. Cool idea too, but as explained above, not proper for the Eagle victor to have one. Are other reverse casts known to exist? Is this bronze one unique? $500! on eBay?
What a beautiful Peace!
When looking at the design I have always seen it as the eagle (us) won the war and took the sword from our defeated enemies. I've always felt the decision to remove it was a knee-jerk reaction by Baker in response to plubic outcry on a story that went viral (for its day). Just my 2c. I do like though that it was Morgan who did the revision engraving. That he had a small part in creating the coin that replaced the standard dollar. Morgans & Peace dollars are forever entwined.
"I realize that, but can you let us know on what page number(s) the relevant documentation concerning Fraser New York Peace Dollar iron casts can be found ?"
Certainly. No one asked before. The Peace dollar material is in "Renaissance of American Coinage 1916-1921" pages 183-278. To understand the relationship of James Fraser to deFrancisci, casts made in NYC, and the overall project, one has to read - or at least skim - earlier material relating to the Mint, Congress. ANA, and the Commission of Fine Arts.
No new data affecting details or conclusions has come to light within the past 11-years since publication.
Just an idle thought almost a century after the fact.... the other half of the broken sword could have been remade into a plowshare under the word DOLLAR.
TD
As I've studied the story of Peace dollar from concept to finished minted coins, the phenomenal speed at which things happened amazes me. The sad thing is that we have now become accustomed to a slothful bureaucracy.