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1865 2C Piece - What do you think PCGS said about it?

oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,415 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited December 10, 2016 7:12AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I originally posted this one in the recent "Copper 4 The Weekend" thread, but...

I picked this little beauty up last week and it did not receive much interest based upon the "hammer price". What do you think PCGS said about it? It is an unattributed DDO FS-101, which I guess went unnoticed...or nobody cared.

Thank you for your interest and comments!

photo 1865 2C OBV close.jpg
photo 1865 2C REV close.jpg

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Comments

  • USMarine6USMarine6 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'll be the guinea pig take a shot at at 64 brown

  • ajaanajaan Posts: 17,476 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hope I'm wrong. Unc. details.


    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • jonrunsjonruns Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭✭✭

    63 brown

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jonruns said:
    63 brown

    Same for me. Could be 64, but lately the guys in the grading room have gotten very very stingy and ornery.

  • TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They are a tough call once they go "Brown". But I'm gonna say I wouldn't be surprised by an AU-55 to AU-58.

    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,473 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU58. The DDO is very minor and not of much importance. DDOs of that type are actually very common in the era in which the 2 cent pieces were struck.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,766 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would grade it as MS62BN. Original surfaces but not nice enough for the 63+ grade, imo, unless we are missing the luster...



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2016 3:41PM

    "Looks" MS63ish based on the fields. Reverse looks MS. The obverse leaves look fine. But some of the center shield lines look rubbed along with the arrow head tips and the word "WE." Normally 2c pieces have strong shield lines so I don't think this is due to strike.

    I'd go AU58 based on the photos.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • OldEastsideOldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hehe I'm in the AU58-MS64BR Crowd :wink:

    Steve

    Promote the Hobby
  • Jackthecat1Jackthecat1 Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭

    I will guess MS-63 Brown.

    Member ANS, ANA, GSNA, TNC



    image
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,234 ✭✭✭✭✭

    BRN/GRN
    Cleaned (mostly).

    Freedom is like inflation: you lose 2-3% every year. Slow enough that you don't even notice.

  • DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice coin and I love these in that color. I see a small bit of weakness that I will attribute to wear on the shield, although strike is certainly a possibility and I may be mistaken. Also, with the dirt in some of the devices, I would have to think some type of circulation . . . it doesn't ALL look like verdigris. For myself, I also tend to look at the amount of 'micro-hits' in the field where luster may not actually be lost, but the intermittent impact of other coins and items in a pocket leave a myriad of very small ticks. To me, that is what AU means.

    I like this coin as an AU58, with an AU55 on a bad day. Either way . . . . a superb look on a coin with a great date.

    Drunner

  • rainbowroosierainbowroosie Posts: 4,875 ✭✭✭✭

    Either 65 brown or au 58

    "You keep your 1804 dollar and 1822 half eagle -- give me rainbow roosies in MS68."
    rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
  • DanielBooneDanielBoone Posts: 161 ✭✭

    AU58

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  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,837 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm in the AU55 camp, but much depends on luster which is hard to evaluate in photos of brown copper.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,415 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PCGS gave it an AU58

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  • stashstash Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭

    @oih82w8 said:
    PCGS gave it an AU58

    So they gave it a slider grade ( 58-62 ) ...........

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,444 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks better in photos. I'd have guessed it to be MS. Oh well. Get rid of it. ( I'll be happy to take it off your hands )

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2016 9:16AM

    If the coin has rub it's hard to go with a mint state grade, especially on 2c pieces that typically don't suffer strike quality issues like earlier 19th century silver. It does have a mint state look to it. If not for the enlarged and very detailed photos, I'd have not seen the obv high point rubs.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @roadrunner said:
    "Looks" MS63ish based on the fields. Reverse looks MS. The obverse leaves look fine. But some of the center shield lines look rubbed along with the arrow head tips and the word "WE." Normally 2c pieces have strong shield lines so I don't think this is due to strike.

    I'd go AU58 based on the photos.

    Looks 62-63 to me......I would love to be able to buy 2 centers like this as 58's.

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice call, RR, 2915th, and others who nailed this one.
    I still think it's a "commercial unc" and this coin goes MS 8/10 tries.
    Probably a moot point as it may be more marketable in a 58 holder, especially as it isn't a typical 58. It's a 58 as the grade was intended to be- not like a lot of 58s that are "really" 53ish and dull and lacking appeal and luster.

  • RedneckHBRedneckHB Posts: 19,382 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with roadrunner....and PCGS....light rub on the very highest points

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2016 3:16PM

    @mannie gray said:
    Nice call, RR, 2915th, and others who nailed this one.
    I still think it's a "commercial unc" and this coin goes MS 8/10 tries.
    Probably a moot point as it may be more marketable in a 58 holder, especially as it isn't a typical 58. It's a 58 as the grade was intended to be- not like a lot of 58s that are "really" 53ish and dull and lacking appeal and luster.

    I think the rubbing is obvious enough that it comes back AU58 more often than MS. I could see the TPG passing the flatness on the arrow heads, but the "WE" and "shield lines" are another story. I never see a "whitish" look to "WE" on MS63 BN/RB 2 cent pieces. Even if you could "add" a tad of color to those high points to mask them, the shield lines are still flat. In any case probably the value of 58+/60 assuming there's no "green" on her. Could have been a good candidate for 58+ but maybe the luster boldness and/or lack of "greening" wasn't up to par. Fwiw, PCGS has only given 6 AU58 2 cent pieces a + grade ....those are pretty "rare." They won't be given away lightly. And even among the MS64/65 2 cent pieces they give out very few pluses...most of them on 1864 and 1865. Easier to get a 62/63 grade on the OP's 2 cent piece than a 58+ grade. Exceptional eye appealing AU58's are like hen's teeth.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @roadrunner said:

    @mannie gray said:
    Nice call, RR, 2915th, and others who nailed this one.
    I still think it's a "commercial unc" and this coin goes MS 8/10 tries.
    Probably a moot point as it may be more marketable in a 58 holder, especially as it isn't a typical 58. It's a 58 as the grade was intended to be- not like a lot of 58s that are "really" 53ish and dull and lacking appeal and luster.

    I think the rubbing is obvious enough that it comes back AU58 more often than MS. I could see the TPG passing the flatness on the arrow heads, but the "WE" and "shield lines" are another story. I never see a "whitish" look to "WE" on MS63 BN/RB 2 cent pieces. Even if you could "add" a tad of color to those high points to mask them, the shield lines are still flat. In any case probably the value of 58+/60 assuming there's no "green" on her. Could have been a good candidate for 58+ but maybe the luster boldness and/or lack of "greening" wasn't up to par. Fwiw, PCGS has only given 6 AU58 2 cent pieces a + grade ....those are pretty "rare." They won't be given away lightly. And even among the MS64/65 2 cent pieces they give out very few pluses...most of them on 1864 and 1865. Easier to get a 62/63 grade on the OP's 2 cent piece than a 58+ grade. Exceptional eye appealing AU58's are like hen's teeth.

    I just adjusted my PC monitor and now I see the rub on the shield lines.
    I couldn't see it from the angle I was looking at it from.

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,174 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was going to say either 58 or 62.... nice piece either way!

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

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  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'll bet you got butchered in one of the many ways they (but more NGC) do that. If they want to find a problem they will.
    "Cleaned", "environmental damage", "XF details" take your pick.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would have said 62.... and still like it for a 62.... I felt the very large images accentuate the 'faults'...evidently PCGS could see them clearly.... :) Cheers, RickO

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