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Congrat's to The G.O.A.T.
Justacommeman
Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
Tom Brady is the greatest of all time at QB. At least if the measuring stick is most wins ever as a QB passing Manning yesterday. I'd like to think he has another 50 or 60 in front of him.
mark
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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Look out........Dak is in the rear view mirror.
Now he only has to win 10 games a year for 25 years to catch him
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
That is one powerful mirror!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Not a Brady fan but have to agree. He is a guy who has it all but is driven more than anyone this side of Payton Manning.
However, I grew up a Patriots fan because I idolized Grogan, the toughest Patriot QB ever. Grogan retired and my loyalties returned fully to the Chiefs. Admire the Patriots system but will never root for them.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Not even close. I think Brady is a great guy, but he is not the best ever. I would put elway or Montana over Brady. It's too easy to be a QB in this era compared to decades past.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.
No, I don't think so. Plenty of potential but can he produce year after year.
BTW my choice for greatest QB ever is Otto Graham because he won year after year with the Browns. I don't think Dak or Brady could make the playoffs with the Browns.
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Ralph
omg. someone hand me an ice pick.
with all the rules that have been added/changed and the longer seasons it is unrealistic to call a modern day QB the greatest of all time. Tom Brady is without a doubt ONE of the greatest of all time and probably the greatest of his era(although I think Ben Roethlisberger needs some mention, also, as do others).
if we were to take one of the many superlative QB's from the 1950-1970 timeframe and swap them with Brady who do you think would flourish. I am being serious now, with the way the game was played then I do not really think Brady would have very much fun, or success. he spend an inordinate amount of time dusting himself off and crying to the referees.
I told myself I would always have a hard time placing Brady ahead of Joe Cool based on the latter's spotless record in SBs, but I tell you what, I'll be forced to reassess this situation if Tom Brady gets sized up for another ring after losing Gronk.
Let's be very honest with ourselves -- remove Rob Gronkowski from the equation and what does New England have left in terms of skill position players? And it is this way seemingly every year. No one does more with less than Tom Brady, Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots. You don't have to like them (I don't), but you must respect their achievements (I do).
I am not a New England fan but his accomplishments are amazing. It is is a different era so hard to compare. Though he has a good team he doesn't have the HOFers like Montana had around him. It seems to me you can make a case for Montana, Elway, Brady and a few others. So hard to compare eras, teammates, etc.... No doubt Brady is one of the best ever if not the best. Plus, his career isn't over so let's see what he can do to finish.
The line of the day right here, "Now he only has to win 10 games a year for 25 years to catch him."
That puts things into perspective in one line!
As a Cowboy fan I am a big fan of Roger S., Troy A. and Danny White. But have no problem with Brady being called one of the best ever. His career speaks for itself. As far as different eras are concerned I think that could be looked at both ways. Sure the rules have been changed to protect the QB. But the defenses are much more complicated now and the players are bigger, faster and stronger now. So who is to say which era would be easier to play QB in? Just saying.
I agree that brady is in the running for greatest qb but the emphasis on rings when trying to compare individual players seems misplaced. Championships are a team acomplishment, and the lack thereof shouldn't count against a player when individual comparisons are made. other than playing on inferior teams, is not brees nearly as effective a passer as brady? When looked at in the context of their careers, I have a hard time placing anyone ahead of Marino.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
True, but I am pretty sure Brady has higher personal stats than Brees and Marino.
Brees has more touchdowns, yards and higher completion %
Marino played in an era when it was much more difficult to accumulate stats for quarterbacks
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I looked at the all time QB list by Passer rating...........you sure can't go by that.....look for your self.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm
Yeah your right. they list montana at 12. I don't think so.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Romo is top three for passer rAting also. Isn't he your favorite dime!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
That list kind of makes you laugh! You have to scroll way down to see some of the great ones.
I believe you can be a great player and not win a championship. How many World Series did Ted Williams or Ernie Banks win? But in the discussion for supremacy among players winning Championships should at least be part of the equation. Playing to the best of ones ability when it means the most, under tremendous stress, and bringing out the best in your teammates certainly should count for something. I would say Brady has done extremely well in this regard.
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Ralph
As a Cowboy fan I am a big fan of Roger S., Troy A. and Danny White
Roger Staubach has always impressed me, arriving in the NFL after being a top draft pick and serving for six years. I doubt we will ever see that again in any major sport.
You don't see it very often. The Admiral did it in the NBA.
Since you are doing the could ofs --------without two circus plays Brady could have easily won six Suoer Bowls. Your record is what it says you are. He has the most wins of al-time with a lack of a lot of hall of fame type talent surrounding him on offense. He has done more on offense with less then anyone I can think of.
BTW G.O.A.T. Is his nickname. That's what the tread title states.
I'll take him and Montana over anyone every time. He still has a ways to go. He hasn't lost a step. I like his will to win over anyone. He's a throwback and would have won in any era.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Bill Belichick is a defensive minded Head Coach, he always has been. one of the under-rated aspects of the Patriots that has been consistent over the years is their defense. it has won them as many games as Brady has been credited with including that interception at the goal line against the Seahawks --- but the offense and Brady will always get the highlight reel and the credit.
He's a throwback and would have won in any era.
Mark, you're delusional and need to come up for some air. the "Tuck Rule" was instituted just for Brady. without stuff like that put in place to protect him specifically and all the other rules to insulate a QB from contact he would have difficulty winning in this era.
and before you try to feed me that crap about players today being faster this and more athletic that, remember, I watched back in the day and know what they could do then. the true "throwback" is Roethlisberger, not Brady. and while we're at it, if anyone thinks the officiating doesn't protect Tom Brady and other players/Teams they are lying to themselves.
Keets you are spot on with this one. I have also been watching football for decades and have seen that players 20 and 30 years ago were also very athletic and no doubt would have competed well against modern players . I mean, if you think about it, 30 or 40 years is not near enough for the human body to " micro evolve" into a faster more powerful version. That leaves modern training, legal and illegal supplements to blame for increased size/speed. Do people really think reggie white wouldn't dominate today's nfl?
Back to quarterbacks, I am a huge brady fan, but am not ready to say he is number 1 when it comes to passing . I think if Marino was given the same rules to play by as brady/manning/brees, he would have as good if not better numbers.
Quarterback wins are about as valuable as pitching wins in baseball. That is to say not that valuable. Bob Gibson had probably the greatest modern pitching season in 1968. 1.12 era. He lost 9 games. As an individual stat, wins are not a good evaluation of talent
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
we should talk about the rule changes that have taken place over the last few decades as Brady as entering the NFL and excelling. there are two which make me crazy, one which pertains to passing and the other to having possession of the football.
with passing, it is almost impossible today for a Quarterback to be guilty of Intentional Grounding.
with possession, I don't know when the rule was changed, but it used to be that "helping the ball carrier" by pushing the pile was a penalty. now it is a time honored way to help.
both changes are pathetic.
There is also much less contact on receivers allowed now compared to 15 or 20 years ago. If receivers can get open sooner and have less contact during a route, it is much easier to get them the ball.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Hits across The middle of the field have also decreased in ferociousness because officials are trying to protect players from head injury. The middle of the field used to be a no mans land, but that has changed significantly in recent times
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
You are both wrong here. Intentional grounding is the same as always. Going over the middle is still asking to be hit. It is harder to run routes and catch passes now than it used to be. You used to not be able to put your hands on the receiver now you can put a hand on his back as long as you don't alter his direction. Pushing the pile has always been part of the game as long as the runner is gaining ground.
All aspects of football are tougher now than it use to be. An average team of today could man handle the best teams of the 50's. The players are much bigger, stronger and faster than back then. This is a fact.
Looks like some people here just don't want to give Brady credit for how good he is. And I am NOT a Pats fan, but will give them and Brady for their accomplishments.
No one tougher then Brady between the ears and on the field. Ben is only the later. No one with more will to win.
Spare me on the old timey players being tougher. That is delusional and you are waxing poetic. Im sure the guys that played in the 40's said the same about the guys who played in the 60's and 70's. I'm sure that they guys who played with out helmets and face masks said the same about those who played in the 50's. I can hear themsaying what a bunch of pansies.
The FACTS are that players are bigger, faster, stronger and better conditioned by a COUNTRY mile then 20 years ago. So much so that this game maybe extinct in 20 years without rule changes. Can you imagine what the rosters would look like IF they didn't protect the QB's? They would all look like the Cleveland Browns and no one would watch. I swear some of you need Forum Concussion Protocal before you should be able to post. Talk about delusional.
Safeties today hit harder then any linebacker of the 70's and 80's. Why? Physics. Speed. Mass.
Baseball is correct. It is a team sport and Brady is the leader of perhaps the best team of all time.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Totally agree Mark with your assessment of players now and in the 50's.
I will say that to me the Cowboys of the 90's are the best overall team ever. They manhandled the Bills in the SB 2 years in a row. Many were picking the Bills both times. Why I don't know. Then one year later beat Pittsburgh making it 3 out of 4 years domination. The Cowboys would run and pass the ball down your throat and then stifle you with their defense.
70's super Steelers won 4 out of 6 championships. That has never been topped.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
3 of 4 75% is better than 4 of 6 66%.
I am proud to say my Browns have never lost a Super Bowl. Not many teams can say that.
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Ralph
There are still quite a few teams that have never been to a SB.
This is not correct. They changed the rule about 10 years ago. Used to be grounding was called if you didn't throw near a receiver. Now quarterbacks are allowed to thrive the ball away if they're out of the pocket and throw past the line of scrimmage. In the past, that was grounding.
My Lions stand shoulder to shoulder with you sir.
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Mark, I can answer your assessment about the players from the bye-gone era with one name --- Jim Brown.
some may think he was an exception, that there weren't other players of his ilk, but I believe they are wrong as I believe you are wrong. the HOF is filled with them. part of the reason we disagree and see things differently is because of the way the game is played today.
those DB's that hit so hard and seem like they are moving so fast is because no one tackles anymore, they roll block. I won't argue that the tactic isn't effective, but there are more missed tackles and injuries as a result of that lack of skill which has a player actually wrap a player with his arms. the game has changed more than the players.
tell Earl Campbell that players are bigger today, he had thighs the size of a normal man's chest. tell the Purple People Eaters that today's Defensive Lineman are bigger, more athletic and quicker than they were. go tell Andy Russell that he was a punk Linebacker.
I could name players I have seen play, obscure guys like John Wooten or Erich Barnes, others you know like Forrest Gregg, Dick Butkus, Merlin Olsen, etc, but you should be able to catch my drift.
on to Super Bowl non-losers ---my fantasy Super Bowl is the last two Teams to appear in the Championship, played some many years hence in a European City. it will feature the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions with the game being won by either Team in the second overtime period.
One has only to compare the actual heights, sizes and weights of players from earlier eras vs today to clearly understand that players today are bigger, faster and in better shape today vs years ago. I remember when The Hogs in Washington were considered mammoth in their day. Today those guys would be considered undersized. Sure, we all romantically remember Earl Campbell and his huge thighs bowling over people, but the numbers don't lie with regard to size and conditioning.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
You are right and wrong here. Don't you think Campbell would be considered big today?
I would say that Campbell at 5'11" and 245 lbs would be considered big, comparable to a back like Eddie Lacy, but the size and quickness of the defenders he was facing vs today is the difference.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
If Campbell had access to the same trainers, equipment, techniques and legal supplements modern players have access to, don't you think he would be even faster/stronger than he was? The same goes for the hogs or any player from years past.
People talk about old players being slower, weaker etc as though we have evolved into supermen in the last 40 years. We haven't . In the amount of time we have been playing organized sports in this country, what, less than 200 years, there just isn't the time to "evolve" in that way if you believe in such a thing. That leaves the size/strength change due to modern training techniques and supplements and not because people are just bigger now. Let jim brown train today and he would be just as dominant he was in the 1960's
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Yes, of course, that is true and is also the reason why it's difficult to compare players across eras. Conversely, if you take players of today and set them back 30-40 years, they won't be as fast or as strong, either.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Exactly. I would imagine a dominant player today would be dominant 30 years ago. likewise, an older player who was dominant would see the same results today
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I don't see how anyone can say this is cut and dry! But there is no way of knowing what would or would not accomplish in different.
But I can see Brown and Campbell running over people right now just as they did in their day. They were both bigger and stronger than others of their era. Just saying. After all it doesn't really matter does it.
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Jim Brown was a immense talent and a man against boys. DL back in his era weighed 195, lbs soaking wet and ran 5.1 40's.
If today s game was played like it was in the 50's through 70's everybody on the field would be dead.
I love that you are a romantic though. It's cute
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
In all fairness, the NFL has changed as has the expectations for players. I would rather not combine a discussion that determines greatness or who the greatest may have been. A comparison between a QB such as Otto Graham and Brady Anderson is Inherently unfair to Graham for obvious reasons. It is just not viable to apply a 2016 yard stick and measure the accomplishments of a QB that played 60-70 years earlier.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
** I would imagine a dominant player today would be dominant 30 years ago. likewise, an older player who was dominant would see the same results today**
this doesn't take into account what I have tried to assert in all the various threads which discuss this topic: the Rules. for the subject player, Tom Brady, if he were playing 50 years ago in the 1960's with the rules in place at that time I believe he be far less effective and have far less of a stellar resume. conversely, since Earl Campbell has been mentioned so frequently, if he were brought forward 40 years I believe he would play like the bigger, stronger brother of Marshawn Lynch.
the carnage left behind Earl from these big DB's trying to roll tackle him would be outstanding!!! can anyone say concussion protocol??
If today s game was played like it was in the 50's through 70's everybody on the field would be dead.
I missed this, but I fixed it for you below.
---If today s players had to played back in the 50's through 70's everybody on the field would be dead.
BTW, although Lou Groza is remembered primarily as a Place Kicker he also played the offensive line at 6'3"/240. Carl Eller came in at 6'6"/247. this is bigger than your assessment and smaller than players today. I believe that the players nowadays "bulk" up with extra fat and not necessarily extra muscle. the luxury of an improved diet and "supplements" for lack of a better word, not really an improved version of the player.
oh yeah, I am cute, thank you for the compliment!!!
Last nights game against the Ravens just showed again how great a QB Brady is.
Brady: 11 touches & 1 pick without Gronk