When to have a coin Graded
HiBucky
Posts: 625 ✭✭✭
Maybe some of you can answer a question about the price associated with having a coin graded, and when does it make sense to grade a coin? I would like to have a set of half dollars graded it is an super set of Franklin Half Dollars but with an average price of $40.00 per coin to have them graded how can I justify it. I must be missing something. I have had 8 free submissions in the past and used them but I want to have this set graded. Lets say I buy a non graded MS coin that has a MS-65 PCGS price of $100.00. It is a solid coin I pay $75.00 for coin I put another $40.00 into the coin now I have $115.00 in a $100.00 coin. What logic do you use when contemplating having a coin graded? Are there special deals ? Thanks JIm
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Well, PCGS charges $20 for Economy grading and this is for coins valued at $300 or less. Your handling and shipping will add more to the total, but you would still be just a shade over $20 each. The question in this instance, for me, is weather you might be better off buying Franklin half dollars already graded vs. submitting them yourself. After all, this is a series with very pieces already certified and in the market.
I have my own calculus I go through with respect to when to have a coin certified and it might not apply to others, but I am certain more folks will tell you their dollar value cutoff shortly.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Send them in under economy at $20 per coin,,,,,, with shipping you should stay well under $25 / coin if you send several coins at once.
Economically, the price of the coin in the slab should exceed the price of the coin out of the slab by at least the grading/shipping cost. There are other considerations, such as authentication, attribution, keeping the coin in it's current state, etc. It can make sense to slab a cheap coin if you can bump ump the value enough. For Frankins in the 64-65 range, you're probably going to need a $150-$200 coin for the math to work out.
In your pricing, you seem to be assuming the coins will grade what you think they are graded and be valued accordingly... that will most likely NOT happen to them all. Some will grade higher, some lower.
I would guess that some of those coins you think are worth $40 could be worth significantly higher if they grade one or two points higher than expected. If it really is a super set, you might get several high grades back.
It is hard to really factor that in when deciding whether to get coins graded, but I know I almost always get a few surprises back from the graders. Some good, some bad.
That said, if the average value really is $40, that's too low for me if they were my coins. The only way I would consider going forward with that type of submission is if there was a decent shot at getting some really nice scores... you'll be able to figure that out by looking at the price guides as there are some pretty big jumps in some of the grades; even a few plus grades can make a big difference in some.
Good luck!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
My system is.........if I want the coin in PCGS slab........I send it in. Very simple.
I agree with the Economy Submission process. Send in a group of the 10 to 15 coins you believe will grade the highest. The results from the submission will guide you what to do with the rest.
I agree completely with this. I don't generally sell coins so my primary reasoning is simply that I want them in a slab for one reason or another. This is particularly true for proofs. I've sent in several proof Franklins that I am fond of simply for the better viewing and protection compared to a 2x2. In fact I have a few more that I'll be sending in under economy sometime soon.
Collector, occasional seller
Thank you all, for the guidance regarding may half dollar submissions. Now I have a simple question, does it make a difference having a PCGS dealer send it my coins or should I take advantage of my 8 free submissions? I have a few serious dollars that should be graded. Many of these have gold/blue/yellow rim toning will make an easy MS 64 but I have a few that have a shot at Ms 66, Ms 67 and please no joke maybe a shot at MS 68. These are flawless dollars they really look like proofs but they are MS. Do the graders know who the coins belong to when they are looking at a coin. Would a dealer who sends in thousands of coins for grading have a better shot at better grades then me who would send in 8 coins under the free submission? I will show a pic in a few days of the coins I want to send it. Thanks JIM
Supposedly they do not know the submitter, but...................................
Best to post your pixs here way before you submit them. You will get an honest, cross section objective group of opinions for you to consider, that will aid you in your decision making. More eyes never hurt, as we all miss things, especially when we are "too close" to the coin. Better to avoid what we want to/think we see, than what is actually there.
Some great advice above. Slabs will protect coins and, in the right slab, add/guarantee value (if selling). So, if it is added protection, self slab..... if contemplating some future sale - then send to TPG (our hosts). If you are truly a proficient grader, you will likely do well.... if, on the other hand, you are more of a proud owner - well, the value may not be as significant.
Cheers, RickO
Please don't take this as a slam, but when I read that folks have "flawless" coins I typically assume they are not adept at grading high grade coins and are missing something that will result in the coin being significantly lower grade than anticipated. This is not true for everyone who uses the term, of course, but over the years I have witnessed this time and again.
The difference between sending the coins in yourself and sending in through a dealer is time, work and money. You already have the voucher for the coins, so you need to obtain the forms, fill them out properly, package the coins securely and mail them to PCGS. This is not something most folks want to do. Indeed, I get contacted by many folks who expect that they can meet up with me and that I will subsequently fill out their forms and package properly for PCGS, but I don't do this for people I don't already know. Therefore, if you bring the coins to a dealer with whom you do not have an already close relationship, expect that you will be charged some type of fee for the service and that, unless otherwise specified, the coins will be sent in at the convenience of the dealer. Personally, I would do this yourself.
As for grading, I am a nobody in this hobby-industry and I send so relatively few coins to PCGS that they could not care who I might be; yet I routinely receive incredibly high grades on the coins I send in because I send in superb coins. That's it.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I've found that the lowest level of the collector's club works best for me. My submissions are usually quite a bit larger than the 8 coins, and since you may only send in the 8 coins on that submission form, the shipping and handling fee are only spread over 8 coins. Making your cost for the coins $22.50 ($180 premium / 8 coins) + $4 (or more) = $26.50 per coin. Since all of my submissions fall under either Economy or Modern level, that's more than my normal average of $22-24 per coin. If you're submitting at a higher service level, I can see where the higher membership makes sense; but it just doesn't do so for me. ( I do recognize you already have purchased the highest level, just thought I'd share my thoughts on that.)
I'd also agree with some of the advice above as to showing us a few pictures, and maybe trying a few of your best coins on your voucher submission to verify your eye is as good as you think it is. TomB's comments in the previous post are very good.
I also generally try to do good-sized submissions of 25-50 coins each that in my eye increases the opportunity for a couple of nice scores that can redeem the coins in the submission that don't grade as well as I'd hoped. @Keets also gave me some great advice when I started submitting to track my expected grades...write them down...and compare when they come back, so you don't lie to yourself by sending it in thinking MS67 and when it comes back as a MS65 you tell yourself that's REALLY what you thought it would grade. I've had submissions that my expectations were right on, and ones where I was off by a mile...but even on the bad ones, I generally get enough nice scores that the submission can be "redeemed."
More info than you want, but the columns I have on my spreadsheet for pre-post submission are:
Coin (date/denomination)
My Cost
Submission Cost
Total Cost
Expected Grade
Value at Expected Grade
Actual Grade
Value at Actual Grade
Grade (+ or -) - numeric points off from my expectation
Designation (+ or -) - for my submissions that's Non-cameo/CAM/DCAM each worth a point.
I'd like to think it has really helped me fine-tune my eye over the past 5 years I've been submitting coins. In fact, if you go back, I know I started a thread with nearly the exact same title several years ago.
So regardless of the dealer who sends in my coins to PCGS his influence will not transfer to the coins I am having graded.. Even if he is a major contributor to PCGS and spends 10s of thousands on grading fees he is not given special treatment? Phone calls, e mails to executives, and personnel contacts will not influence the grade of a coin? If this is true then I can be an equal and my coin will stand on its own merit. SO when someone tells me they have an in with PCGS that is just BS?
I will then send it my coins myself instead of using a dealer... Thanks for your info and your guidance.
I would imagine that most anyone who boasts that they have the pull at PCGS to get beneficial grades is blowing smoke up your you-know-what.
The coins go to the graders without owner identification. Obviously, if you have very rare coins that are well known (1804 dollar, 1913 Liberty nickel, etc...) then perhaps the graders will know who the submission is from, but a collection of Franklin half dollars is not going to be in that universe. Additionally, some of us who submit may believe that there are ways to construct a submission so that a particular liner coin might get the higher grade, but that has everything to do with the psychology of grading and nothing to do with connections.
The coins are the coins.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
And smoke, he is blowing. I was acting stupid when he was talking about how much pull he has. He made some sound statements to me. He did not know I am pretty much on this game of coin collecting. After 50 years of collecting some better points of collecting have rubbed off. Thanks for all your comments. Jim
I recently cracked and dipped a MS63 generic peace dollar, dipped it to get ugly PVC off and it sold for more money raw than I paid when slapped.
Unless the slab costs are 10 pct or less than MV I have on coin no slabbing for me. I have PCGS, NGC, ICG, ANACS coins and use relative TPG price / CWT value or simply cost plus to price them for retail.