Home U.S. Coin Forum

One cause of off-center/misaligned strikes - 1890s

RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited December 1, 2016 8:36AM in U.S. Coin Forum

A letter describing the defects caused by a defective toggle press part. This had been posted on another message board about 4 years ago.

RG104 entry 17 box 2

"Mint of the United States
Coining Department
Philadelphia, Pa.

May 11, 1893

Hon. O. C. Bosbyshell,
Superintendent

Sir:
The thread in the holes in the cast iron head of the Ferracute coining press, where the long bolts run through the arch to hold the upper dies has torn out – this permits the die holder to move about and consequently the die does not strike the center of the planchet. The thread seems to have been too short in length to hold. A new head will have to be furnished and the Ferracute Company had better send here and see what is needed.

Very respectfully,
W. S. Steele,
Coiner"

Note:
Ferracute Company made large machine tools including coin presses. Patents were held in the name of Oberlin Smith. See JNR issue No.1 for their 1896 toggle press patent and drawings showing the press parts mentioned in the letter.

Comments

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2016 7:22PM

    PS: "Ferracute" is pronounced fer-a-kuht e -- accent on fer, soft 'e' at the end.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting, new information. Thanks!

    All glory is fleeting.
  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭

    Always new information that explains the workings
    of the Mint.
    Thank you Roger !

    My Type Set

    R.I.P. Bear image
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks Roger..... amazing what documentation can be found that can tie to minting variations....Cheers, RickO

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Suppose that also explains the off center die clashes. Thanks for posting it!

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,640 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wouldn't that be a cause of misaligned die strikes rather than off-center strikes?

    1893-P coins with misaligned dies would go nicely with that letter -- connecting coins to documentation, as mentioned in another thread.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The letter is from 1893, but this problem was likely a persistent one over many decades. The basic structure of Ferracute coin presses differed little from Morgan & Orr machinery or ones made at the Mint. Plus, Mint engineers repeatedly modified presses, so the mechanisms differed greatly from the original product. (This is a mechanical detail for which we have no reliable information - records were kept but apparently have not survived regarding equipment maintenance and modification.)

  • That would cause misaligned dies, and not off-centers. Having one die "out of place" is how misaligned dies occur. Off-centers occur when the planchet is not centered between either die, and is not within the collar die.

    www.sullivannumismatics.com Dealer in Mint Error Coins.
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Jon - Title corrected. Thanks!

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭✭✭

    RB talk about getting down to the real nuts and bolts of mint operations,you've certainly done it this time.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, mr1874, it's the only way to really understand why coins have certain characteristics or how various errors occur. If we had the machinists' notebooks or those of the engraving/die making department, we could likely nail down the causes of most anomalies. That kind of fundamental information not only aids collectors, but it helps authentication services.

    There are probably more mechanical/equipment/operational answers in the archives, but it is an open-ended search, and no one is willing to pay for the time and talent necessary to do the research. (See the other post on knowledge, etc.)

  • Interesting post, thanks for sharing the info!

    www.sullivannumismatics.com Dealer in Mint Error Coins.
  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,672 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Guy's surname is Steele and he deals in metal dies, the only better last name might have been Press!

  • RittenhouseRittenhouse Posts: 565 ✭✭✭

    Neat. Cool to fi nd documentation. Usually we just have the coins and have to work back. There are a few CBHs and one half cent with the impression of a piece of screw. One of the CBHs also shows a clash with the dentils of the obv die well into the field of the reverse, indicating that a bolt holding the die in the die cup or the die cup to the slider snapped and the die was then hanging at an odd angle. Pretty cool coin.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A side note: Coiner William Steele was severely injured when a die exploded during demonstration of a hydraulic press in 1889. The test press was of the type used to set wheels on railroad cars, and was too powerful for coinage use. It was 1893 before the Mint put a much smaller hydraulic press into operation.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file