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Interesting counterfeit Walking Liberty Half

MorganMan94MorganMan94 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭

I was at a friend's house yesterday and we were looking at coins and he showed me this counterfeit Walking Liberty half he had, I thought it was interesting and I hadn't seen a counterfeit WLH before (although I don't avidly look) so I bought it.. Just thought it was interesting.

Comments

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have never seen one that worn or dated that late.
    I have a 19P, and have seen most of the early dates at one time or another
    over the years (contemporary counterfeits, that is).

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  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are you sure it is counterfeit? It may just be a heavily worn and very badly beaten up half.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Many coins were counterfeited during the Great Depression and a half dollar represented quite a bit more value than it does today.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • CoinlearnerCoinlearner Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭✭

    I won a fake 1940's half on ebay once . Was in a large group. Noticed it didn't "feel" right. The weight was lighter than the real ones. Thought seemed like a lot of trouble to make for a common coin. Can't find a picture of it but it was oddly darker than the rest in the group... Check the weight on it. That can be telling... :)

  • MorganMan94MorganMan94 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am certain it is a counterfeit, I attached some photos next to an authentic WLH. It is a tad bit lighter too! If you view it next to a real one it is noticeably different.


  • AmazonXAmazonX Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2016 12:01PM

    My example:

    1928-S

  • BubbleheadBubblehead Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭

    Holy Toledo! A super puzzle for us. Thanks! I have NO idea, BTW... :(

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm curious about the weight of the alleged spurious coin.
    Can you provide weight please?
    Thank you.

  • COCollectorCOCollector Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Counterfeit or not, it sure is ugly.

    Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I still do not think it is counterfeit. It is more likely that the coin suffered heat or acid damage early in it life and then continued to circulate for another thirty or so years. Being an "ugly" coin, no one wanted to keep it long so it circulated more than would normally be the case for a coin of that year.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Quick check - remove it from the holder and drop it on the table.
    If it rings like silver, it's not a contemporary counterfeit.

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  • MorganMan94MorganMan94 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will have to weigh it tomorrow, it is a bit lighter than a standard WLH.
    It is not silver, I am not sure what it is but my guess is lead.

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,111 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Specific gravity would be the 'gold' standard.

    Remember, it doesn't have to look perfectly like a WLH to succeed - it simply has to look close enough at arms length in the market place.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,077 ✭✭✭

    Looks like a lead counterfeit to me. Cool!

    -Paul

    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Super ugly.... and thin....Did you do the drop/ring test? Cheers, RickO

  • MorganMan94MorganMan94 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2016 9:09PM

    @ricko @mannie gray
    Sorry it took me forever but I did get it weighed, I also weighed an authentic WLH which by chance happened to be a 1935. I did the drop test and it doesn't have the ring to it that silver would.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That big of a difference in weight sure takes away any doubt that it's fake.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Between the weight and the 'ring' test, and the expert opinions on the pictures.... the verdict is in... fake. Cheers, RickO

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    That big of a difference in weight sure takes away any doubt that it's fake.

    @ricko said:
    Between the weight and the 'ring' test, and the expert opinions on the pictures.... the verdict is in... fake. Cheers, RickO

    @ricko said:
    Between the weight and the 'ring' test, and the expert opinions on the pictures.... the verdict is in... fake. Cheers, RickO

    I was slow to come around on this one (I agreed with 291fifth) but if it looks fake and feels fake and sounds fake ....it's a fake.

  • SLQSLQ Posts: 311 ✭✭

    My grandfather had to walk a few miles home from work once in the 1930s after a bus driver bent his half dollar with his bare hands, then kicked him off the bus. He was on a strict allowance from my grandmother, even though
    he was the only one working in the family. I heard this story a few times as a kid.

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have a lead fake Barber half and quarter somewhere, though I haven't seen a Walker fake dated in the 1930s or later (until now).
    Certainly doesn't mean they are not out there.

  • WildIdeaWildIdea Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ll add a fake walker to the thread. Mine is a 1936 and weighs 9.9 g. Pretty beat up but the metal is soft.


  • MorganMan94MorganMan94 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow, literally one year to the day this was bumped.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said: "I still do not think it is counterfeit. It is more likely that the coin suffered heat or acid damage early in it life and then continued to circulate for another thirty or so years. Being an "ugly" coin, no one wanted to keep it long so it circulated more than would normally be the case for a coin of that year."

    I'm curious, about your opinion. You are a 5-Star member here for over ten years. Please educate us. I see no evidence of heat or acid damage. Please point out what I'm missing. IMO, the piece looks like one of those typical crude, lead, coin-like monstrosities that float around. I'll guarantee that due to it's crude appearance it did not circulate for very long - at least in this country.

    I've got dozens of these things. PM me with your address and I'll send you a really nice one for you to study and keep. Here is part of one of my books reserved for junk. ![]

    (https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/1q/ebd4mugdp369.jpg "")

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Having now seen the difference in weight I am tending toward the "fake" crowd. Still, the actual design elements, battered as they are, still seem right. Has the piece been given the "ring" test? (This thread has been gone so long I don't remember much about it.)

    All glory is fleeting.
  • No HeadlightsNo Headlights Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Eagle head/beaks are considerably different. Best piece

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said: "Having now seen the difference in weight I am tending toward the "fake" crowd. Still, the actual design elements, battered as they are, still seem right. Has the piece been given the "ring" test?"

    I'm not going to give up on you. The OP said it made a "thud." The coin's weight is off.
    Now, If you were at a coin show you would not have a balance to weigh it and genuine coins with split planchets "thud." So what should we do. The OP provided us with a genuine comparison piece. Go up to that image and blow it up. Now, look at the reverse. Pick one part, a letter, and move your eye back and forth between the fake and the genuine and see if you can detect the minor differences. Then pick another part until you are satisfied it is not authentic. Major differences - the design elements - look right because otherwise, it would not fool anyone! The coin is a cast, see the holes in its surface.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If it makes a thud it is fake.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • mustangmanbobmustangmanbob Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why Counterfeit a Common Coin?

    During the depths of the Depression, 50 cents was a LOT of money. The price of silver had dropped to below 30 cents an ounce, so an average coin had 4x it's value of silver in it. This means, you could take the sterling silverware that was like trash, since there were no buyers, and convert it into counterfeits for at least a 4x price increase.

    During that time, both my grandparents worked, very unusual, and my dad was an only child, who needed, for lack of a better term, a nanny. She was paid 10 cents a day. So the fake coin would have been a week's wages for her.

    I have a 1930 Model A Ford that I bought in 1969. A common type story I wold hear from "old timers" is that used car prices had sunk so low, they were virtually worthless. The common sales price for a car like mine, was $2, if it ran.

    That also, indirectly, addresses the gold coin issue, that anyone could keep $100 in gold coin. For that nanny, that was about 3 1/2 years of wages, for the car person, he / she could have bought 50 Model A's.

  • BobSavBobSav Posts: 913 ✭✭✭

    Regardless of what it looks like or how much it weighs, the silver " ring " is the tell all.
    We all know what silver sounds like, it's so distinctive that one silver coin in a handful when dropped will stand out.
    If it doesn't have that silver sound especially in a coin that large than it's a fake.
    JMHO
    Bob

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  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would think with the hole it would distort
    the sound of the ring of the silver.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting counterfeit.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said: "If it makes a thud it is fake."

    This is not always true. Many genuine coins do not "ring" as they should for various reasons - generally due to something in the manufacturing process.

    In the 1980's, during a break In an authentication class I was in, a student "ex-pert" passed around what he claimed was a counterfeit Franklin half that the Secret Service returned to him as genuine. He had nothing good to say about the government authenticators. Proudly, he kept dropping the coin with a pleasing "thud" for all to see. The instructor walked over, eyeballed the coin without magnification, and pronounced it genuine. After the class resumed, he explained how the "split" around much of the edge "killed" the coin's "ring." The embarrassed student sold the coin to the instructor to be used in future classes. This year, the instructor was still fooling folks with that coin.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've got several cast lead vintage counterfeits including some Walking Liberty half dollars. And I think one of mine is also a 1928-S like the OP coin (which is a similar cast counterfeit in my opinion).

    And strangely enough, I also have a vintage cast lead 1909 Indian Head cent.

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If it's lead, you will be able to write with it.

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have one here, somewhere.

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • WildIdeaWildIdea Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MorganMan94 said:

    Wow, literally one year to the day this was bumped.

    I simply added the pictures of mine because I finally located the piece and I remembered the discussion. It happened to be a date that wast shown yet.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The "ring test" was one of several recommended by the US Mint in assessing the authenticity of a coin. At several points in time, US Mints tossed coins against a steel bar to be sure they had the correct "ring."

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said: "The "ring test" was one of several recommended by the US Mint in assessing the authenticity of a coin. At several points in time, US Mints tossed coins against a steel bar to be sure they had the correct "ring."

    I've see professional authenticators ring a coin to test so it must work. The problem is, if you don't know what the "ring" of a genuine coin sounds like... :)

    BTW, I've heard that most deceptive modern fakes "ring" true. :(

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