Dow to 50,000 and gold to 300 over next four years?

With stocks at all time highs, the dollar at all time high, and with the rich and corporations about to get a gargantuan tax cut under a Trump Presidency, and the second amendment saved, I need someone to convince me why gold wont go back down to $300 or so an ounce where it was not too long ago. We all want to make money but just cant see how the stock market is not the place to be for the remainder our lifetimes. Im 46 and Ive see the 87 stock market "crash" the 2000 tech bubble "crash" and the 2008 "crash". Yet here we are making daily highs in the stock market again. The doom and gloomers (of which I have been one many times) are the people who flock to gold and silver, yet time and time again, the best place to keep your money is the same place where 99.9999% of the world's wealthy keep their money and made their money---- stocks-----. Will there be another stock market correction in my lifetime? sure, but will the stock market come roaring back to new highs, just like it always does? just as the sun will come up every morning, the stock market will always rebound. I just dont see any more reason to put much capital into gold and silver when that capital can be better deployed in the stock market. seems like putting money in stocks for the foreseeable future and then selling those stocks at much higher prices, then taking those profits and buying precious metals when gold is back down to 400 an ounce in a few years seems like a winning strategy. Many people bought gold as an alternative to the dollar and stocks, but those are at all time highs and at least in our lifetime there does not appear to be any legitimate alternative to the all mighty dollar. Some day perhaps, but for the next 50 years, there is no viable alternative to the dollar even if our debt grows to $100 trillion because no other country has a currency backed by any hard asset. We are in the throes of of the worlds largest creation of wealth, with new billionaires being minted every day (yes its on paper, but those billionaires are able to buy homes, yachts, gold watches, gold bars, gold cars, gold jewelry, etc with that "paper wealth" so its real wealth if they can buy hard assets with their stock market gains). If someone can tell me how or why it will end before I die, I am all ears.

thanks
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Comments

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree, some of my wealthiest friends, are stock market players. They paitently wait through the rocky times until they are behind them and gain back fast when times are roaring. I think we are getting ready to see a total change back to economic good times, stocks, real estate and pm's go bye bye. I am not so sure of 300 gold, but under 1k is close up on us IMO

  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2016 8:23AM

    strong dollar index will cause more economic problems than it can solve. PMs will suffer in the short term. One way to beat it down is to not raise rates Dec. 16. FED jawboning in the opposite direction may be in the cards. Might be a good contrarian bet.

    As for the stock market? It's where they want your money so it will continue to be the place to put your money. PMs are part of a portfolio to protect from when they lose control of the stock market. Crashes show that it does occur. 2008 was not just a bad dream.

    Inflation is currently in the cards, another reason to hold PMs. I will continue to hold some of my excess reserves in PMs until the money is needed elsewhere. I will also continue to buy the dips.

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand

  • OPAOPA Posts: 15,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm waiting on roadrunner or derryb for their rebuttals B)

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 37,025 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Until the government gets its economic house in order (paying down the national debt, balancing its budget, etc) I just don't see gold dropping to such lows as $300.

  • renman95renman95 Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Personally, if gold goes (well) below $1k, I say...bring it. It just means that I can complete my gold Registry's quicker and cheaper. I'm selfish that way, sorry comrades. As for the stock market...I can see huge gains once the shackles are officially off big and small businesses.

    HE>i


    -, 29, 1, 50, 25, 23, 28
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 40,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    pretty soon those rich cats can start paving the streets with gold, unless they're just too cheap. LOL

  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2016 10:57AM

    a 50,00 DOW is gonna be the result of some serious inflation with gold inflating right along with it.

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,174 ✭✭✭✭

    In four years? No way no how the DOW gets close to 50,000. 25,000 would be a hell of a stretch but is at least a realistic possibility if all the stars line up. Gold at $300? A lot higher probability but highly unlikely. $900 is realistic for gold in the next 4 years and I'd be surprised if gold didn't get close to $900 in that timeframe.

  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,248 ✭✭✭✭✭

    September 3, 1929 until November 23, 1954. That's how long it took the stock market to recover from its highest point before the stock market crash and great depression. 25 years. You would be 71 years old. The stock market is not a "sure" thing. The majority of self made millionaires did not make their fortunes in the stock market. Read the book, "The Millionaire Next Door" if you want to find the secret. Most people that become millionaire's are just ordinary people living next door that you would never guess they are wealthy. The don't live extravagantly and they are lifelong savers and work hard for their money. For most people, there is no short cut. Budget your expenses, control your expenditures, save a large portion of your income (Diversify in real estate, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, precious metals etc.), stay out of debt, work hard at your job, start your own business, etc. - these are the keys.

  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IMO, it all depends on whether the rest of the world continues to preserve the dollar as the international currency. That prospect faces geopolitical headwinds. And while there seems to be excitement a-building with Trump's plans to reignite the economy, I still don't see anyone--left or right--with plans to realistically address the dislocations wrought by globalization and technological advances. The social forces unleashed by the large number of people who are losing out to these historic events have yet to be fully felt.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,828 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What's that saying? Buy low, sell high. I agree with hchcoin, PerryHall, and derryb.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,840 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Inflation....the great equilizer.


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not only does a strong dollar threaten gold, it threatens the stock market. For this reason alone look for "somebody" to pull the rug out from under the dollar.

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,840 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great bull markets have been associated with a strong dollar. Think 1995-2000.

    I do like how you always include "them" or "smoebody" in your fears.


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 13,456 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like thinking 1979-80

  • I think economic good times are coming as well due to trumps administration but on the downside of that I see foreign unrest ie: terrorism and war knocking back the gains of us economic policy. Oil will be a problem until we get the oil from the US to produce as it can bypassing epa and other regulations.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,828 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2016 6:41PM

    I tend to agree with cohodk in that the US is strong compared to "everywhere else", or at least that's what I sense in his posts. Along those lines, I agree that everything is relative and that Trump might be successful in setting the table for a US economic comeback. Or, he might not. Time will tell.

    However, the black swans haven't gone away and nothing's been corrected. The debt is still running rampant, spending is still out of control, the last several iterations of banking law, healthcare law & tax law are still in effect to no ordinary person's benefit. The white collar criminals and globalists are still in control while more and more poor, uneducated, illegal and unskilled people are on the public dole.

    The pathways into the middle class may be irreparably damaged because many good jobs have been exported, and it may take a much longer recovery now to re-generate a work ethic that's been sabotaged in the education system. In addition, the negative effects of class warfare may only be beginning as this election cycle has seemingly brought out some ugly agendas into full view. Sorry if reality makes a less-than-rosy scenario more likely.

    There are pension crises looming in several large states that will require additional rescue via money creation, a major entitlement program restructuring (and loss of benefits) that must take place, and a chronic government funding shortfall that only makes the debt worse, not better. With rates at historic lows, any rate increases will only make it harder for businesses to grow and create capital & more jobs. These things can only place a drag on the economy by sucking resources away from economic activity where it's needed most.

    You can't have it both ways. If you think that tax reform means less tax on business, you might ask yourself just what spending is going to be cut. If you don't think that spending can be cut, you might ask yourself how much inflation is going to dilute the value of what you already own or hold. We are going to see the effects of poor management on a global scale. I truly don't know where it will end up. I do know that I won't be buying bonds, and I am very leery of what happens to stocks when bonds start selling off.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2016 8:12PM

    I suspect sovereign debt is no longer a worry. With central banks absorbing it it goes into a black hole and is forgotten forever. What does matter with this arrangement is the resulting unlimited new money it demands. This money creation will expedite the devaluation of all currencies, and will go unnoticed by most until it is too late.

    The central bank push on the DOW is intended to assist in the battle of inflation vs. deflation. "Inflate at all costs."

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand

  • bumanchubumanchu Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭

    I think half of you are right, half of you are wrong, and the other half......well, I can't really say for sure.

    And I ain't lying this time.
  • bumanchubumanchu Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭

    Thread killer is back!

    And I ain't lying this time.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,840 ✭✭✭✭✭

    September 3, 1929 until November 23, 1954. That's how long it took the stock market to recover from its highest point before the stock market crash and great depression. 25 years

    Well, actually, stocks pay dividends. An investment in the sp500 during the time you reference would have netted an almost 400% return.

    If only gold paid a dividend


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • tneigtneig Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭

    The predicted ranges and comments I've heard since my short 10 yr span in PMs.
    Gold will go to $2000 and silver to $200
    Gold will go to $500 and Silver to $20
    Diamonds are a good investment
    Bitcoin is a money replacement
    Gold in Fort Knox and NY is (complicated enough to burst a brain artery)

    I honestly don't know what I've learn from that, other than Hedging is expensive.

    But I've had a lot of fun and would have felt terrible if I spent that PM money in a Casino or bought a condo.
    I'm going to cash in two $20 Eagles and go on a cruise.

    COA
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 23,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    add me for a prediction of silver $11, and maybe an overshoot to $8

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 23,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tneig said:
    Bitcoin is a money replacement

    it was used for transactions early on

    I only hear about flipping it now.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 21,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tneig said:

    But I've had a lot of fun and would have felt terrible if I spent that PM money in a Casino or bought a condo.
    I'm going to cash in two $20 Eagles and go on a cruise.

    Casino, condo, cruise.

    One of these is not like the others!

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 23,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:

    @tneig said:

    But I've had a lot of fun and would have felt terrible if I spent that PM money in a Casino or bought a condo.
    I'm going to cash in two $20 Eagles and go on a cruise.

    Casino, condo, cruise.

    One of these is not like the others!

    you can't buy a condo with 2 double eagles? :D

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    If only gold paid a dividend

    Term insurance, not whole life.

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,840 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019 11:18AM

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    If only gold paid a dividend

    Term insurance, not whole life.

    Of which most terms out worthless or requires death. How wonderful.


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,840 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019 3:09PM

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    If only gold paid a dividend

    Term insurance, not whole life.

    Another decade of this and we're all gonna need long term care insurance. Haha


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 21,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh how i hate "insurance"!

    It's a Bet that something Bad will happen. As long as it doesn't, you Lose every single bet.

    If I had back all the money i wasted over 35 years on Insurance, and had "self insured" ( I've only had rare, tiny claims of any kind) and had invested the money, the total would be very large indeed.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:
    Oh how i hate "insurance"!

    It's a Bet that something Bad will happen. As long as it doesn't, you Lose every single bet.

    If I had back all the money i wasted over 35 years on Insurance, and had "self insured" ( I've only had rare, tiny claims of any kind) and had invested the money, the total would be very large indeed.

    if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt on the ground.

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand

  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 1,773 ✭✭✭✭✭

    stock market at all time high? maybe 3 years ago. gold at 300 is laughable

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,174 ✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    September 3, 1929 until November 23, 1954. That's how long it took the stock market to recover from its highest point before the stock market crash and great depression. 25 years

    Well, actually, stocks pay dividends. An investment in the sp500 during the time you reference would have netted an almost 400% return.

    If only gold paid a dividend

    Dividends averaged 6%/year during the Great Depression?

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,840 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019 3:12PM

    @VanHalen said:

    @cohodk said:
    September 3, 1929 until November 23, 1954. That's how long it took the stock market to recover from its highest point before the stock market crash and great depression. 25 years

    Well, actually, stocks pay dividends. An investment in the sp500 during the time you reference would have netted an almost 400% return.

    If only gold paid a dividend

    Dividends averaged 6%/year during the Great Depression?

    Yes

    http://www.multpl.com/s-p-500-dividend-yield/table


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,840 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @Baley said:
    Oh how i hate "insurance"!

    It's a Bet that something Bad will happen. As long as it doesn't, you Lose every single bet.

    If I had back all the money i wasted over 35 years on Insurance, and had "self insured" ( I've only had rare, tiny claims of any kind) and had invested the money, the total would be very large indeed.

    if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt on the ground.

    Thats your response? Seriously?

    Coulda at least said Warren Buffet thanks you for your contribution to his retirement fund.


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @VanHalen said:

    @cohodk said:
    September 3, 1929 until November 23, 1954. That's how long it took the stock market to recover from its highest point before the stock market crash and great depression. 25 years

    Well, actually, stocks pay dividends. An investment in the sp500 during the time you reference would have netted an almost 400% return.

    If only gold paid a dividend

    Dividends averaged 6%/year during the Great Depression?

    That 6% gain was little consolation while the stocks themselves lost 80% of their value.

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 24,741 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @VanHalen said:
    In four years? No way no how the DOW gets close to 50,000. 25,000 would be a hell of a stretch but is at least a realistic possibility if all the stars line up. Gold at $300? A lot higher probability but highly unlikely. $900 is realistic for gold in the next 4 years and I'd be surprised if gold didn't get close to $900 in that timeframe.

    Someone should give Vanhalen some credit on this.....he got 1/2 of it .... 25,000 DOW wasn't that much of a stretch though, looking back, was it? ;)
    Now, the gold bit....sadly, not there.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • OPAOPA Posts: 15,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    Not only does a strong dollar threaten gold, it threatens the stock market. For this reason alone look for "somebody" to pull the rug out from under the dollar.

    derryb's wisdom posted in 2016

    Only partially correct....It most certainly had a negative affect on gold, but not stocks.

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 21,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt on the ground.

    What a bizarre, irrelevant, and irrational non sequitur!

    Also, and again for you, false. Frog's butt would still hit on takeoff and especially landing.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019 4:46PM

    @OPA said:

    @derryb said:
    Not only does a strong dollar threaten gold, it threatens the stock market. For this reason alone look for "somebody" to pull the rug out from under the dollar.

    derryb's wisdom posted in 2016

    Only partially correct....It most certainly had a negative affect on gold, but not stocks.

    Since 2016:
    dollar has weakened from 102 to 96 with a low of 89. Rug pulled out from under dollar. ✔
    Weaker dollar, stronger gold, from 1156 to a high of 1350, currently at 1282. ✔
    Weaker dollar, stronger equities, S&P from 2238 to a high of 2929, currently at 2531. ✔

    Fully correct.

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand

  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:

    @derryb said:

    if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt on the ground.

    What a bizarre, irrelevant, and irrational non sequitur!

    Also, and again for you, false. Frog's butt would still hit on takeoff and especially landing.

    Just trying to show you how idiotic it is to reflect on things in terms of "if."

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,840 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @cohodk said:
    September 3, 1929 until November 23, 1954. That's how long it took the stock market to recover from its highest point before the stock market crash and great depression. 25 years

    Well, actually, stocks pay dividends. An investment in the sp500 during the time you reference would have netted an almost 400% return.

    If only gold paid a dividend

    Dividends averaged 6%/year during the Great Depression?

    That 6% gain was little consolation while the stocks themselves lost 80% of their value.

    Dude... you really know how to rub it in to the PMers. Salt in the wound!! Folks are 70-80% on PMs and dont even get the benefit of a dividend. Ouch!!


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019 6:17PM

    Dood. . .Ya gotta quit thinking of PMs as an investment and realize what their true worth is. In your case, consider them a hedge against your "bubble" investments. In my case they don't make money, they protect money.

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,840 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019 6:40PM

    In my case they (PMs) don't make money ...... derryb 1/23/19

    Finally an accurate comment!!! Whoohoo!!

    Love ya derryb ;) :smile:


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 40,832 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019 7:03PM

    I bought an ounce at spot and sold it for 5% more. It didn't make me money , but it did help to pay the utility bill.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 21,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The point was about the concept of insurance, but now the subject is cash flow versus capital appreciation. Anyway, yes please to all, beats the alternatives. Don't forget me and other doomsday doubters Do hold more PMs than we can lift by ourselves. Just in case ...

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019 12:03AM

    @FSF said:

    @derryb said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @cohodk said:
    September 3, 1929 until November 23, 1954. That's how long it took the stock market to recover from its highest point before the stock market crash and great depression. 25 years

    Well, actually, stocks pay dividends. An investment in the sp500 during the time you reference would have netted an almost 400% return.

    If only gold paid a dividend

    Dividends averaged 6%/year during the Great Depression?

    That 6% gain was little consolation while the stocks themselves lost 80% of their value.

    That's the thing that is great about stocks. You mention that people lost 80% of their value but that assumes everyone bought at the peak and sold at the low. However, if you just employ a simple DCA, and even begin buying at the peak, you would have had substantial returns even aside from all of the dividends all the while the entire index didn't gain one bit over a 25 year peak to peak measure. That's completely ignoring the dividends which were substantial in their own right and giving your argument the benefit of the doubt and assuming they only buy starting at the peak.

    The statement was that stocks, not people, lost 80% of their value during the depression. Apparently a lot of people lost 100%. And while a dividend sounds great on paper, it actually reduces the amount of capital that is reinvested into the company that likely would have driven up the value of the company. Dividends may be great for the short term investor, but the long term investor is more rewarded with company growth that will drive up his share value. The FANG's are a good example of the benefit of this reinvestment of revenue.

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand

  • bluelobsterbluelobster Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    .

    The statement was that stocks, not people, lost 80% of their value during the depression. Apparently a lot of people lost 100%. And while a dividend sounds great on paper, it actually reduces the amount of capital that is reinvested into the company that likely would have driven up the value of the company. Dividends may be great for the short term investor, but the long term investor is more rewarded with company growth that will drive up his share value. The FANG's are a good example of the benefit of this reinvestment of revenue.

    LOL, Yeah... Dividends are only great if you are a short term investor.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,828 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I bought a stock yesterday (for my grandson, not for me - are you kidding?) Time to really load up on metals.

    Question for BL, have reinvested dividends really spiked upwards 4X more than the gains in the underlying stocks in the past 10 years? That chart doesn't seem to make much sense. Seems very odd. Please explain.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019 9:24AM

    @bluelobster said:

    @derryb said:

    .

    The statement was that stocks, not people, lost 80% of their value during the depression. Apparently a lot of people lost 100%. And while a dividend sounds great on paper, it actually reduces the amount of capital that is reinvested into the company that likely would have driven up the value of the company. Dividends may be great for the short term investor, but the long term investor is more rewarded with company growth that will drive up his share value. The FANG's are a good example of the benefit of this reinvestment of revenue.

    LOL, Yeah... Dividends are only great if you are a short term investor.

    The comment was "the long term investor is more rewarded with company growth that will drive up share value." Your chart shows an impressive approx. 250% return when dividends were reinvested by the shareholder since approx 2012.

    Note that when in lieu of paying dividends the FANGs (FB, AMZN, NFLX, GOOGL) reinvested in company growth. Result over 12 years was an increase of 1,111% in stock value which equates to an annualized return of 28% to the shareholder. The little old ladies love hearing the broker tell them they received 6% dividends for the year. The reality is their 6% and a slower share price gain netted them much less than the smart money's more aggressive 28% annual return.

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand

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