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Sharia Law standards for Muslim gold ownership to be lifted January 1st.

EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭✭✭
Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:

Comments

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, it will certainly affect the fundamental of demand. But, fundamentals don't always apply with gold in bizarro world. Blame the futures market. Futures contracts are meant to protect producers by "stabilizing" prices. Works well for farmers and money printers.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, gold don't act like it should. Gosh darn it.

    If only I understood this intermarket relationship stuff.

    EagleEye, more buyers can't hurt.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Should be interesting... it certainly has potential... Although things often do not work the way we perceive they might. Cheers, RickO

  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would imagine sharia islams that want gold as investment already have gold as investment.

  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Presently they are able to buy gold only in the form of Jewelry. This will make bars and coins acceptable for ownership. It might only influence margins not actual amounts sold.

    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The market is so thin and manipulated I wouldn't hold my breath. Now if some billionaires stepped in......

    email: ccacollectibles@yahoo.com

    100% Positive BST transactions
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Next , people will be accused of being infidels , due to materialism. The religion of peace. ;). How nice. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't .

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Like most religions there are devout followers, followers, and so called followers. Most are not devout and I would suspect if a Muslim wanted or needed gold they would be in the latter two categories. I don't see an affect on prices.

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    just one more buyer is an increase in demand.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would believe that, except for the most devout, there was likely gold ownership anyway.... Cheers, RickO

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2016 11:23AM

    munknee says it will add 100 million buyers to the market

    Aside from the increased individual direct buys of gold this is what will make a difference:

    "It’s very likely asset managers in key Islamic finance countries like Bahrain, Qatar, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and Malaysia will start aggressively offering gold investment products like ETFs – which are already wildly popular in the rest of the world. At current prices, if Islamic financial institutions allocate to gold just 2% of the assets they manage, it would equal roughly 1000 tonnes of extra demand…"

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just wait until they approve eating bacon..... the pork market will skyrocket.... :D:D Cheers, RickO

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2017 3:28PM

    Will take affect by March 31 (exact date unknown) and should be a very positive driver for gold price at that time.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • SkyManSkyMan Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can't imagine it'll make much difference, given that Muslims could already own jewelry and coins. I'm sure that those that are serious gold bugs have already driven a truck through that "loophole". After all, for the longest time gold bullion was illegal in India, and the people just vacuumed it up as jewelry, where the jewelry was basically unadorned heavy chains or bracelets of gold.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2017 11:15AM

    @SkyMan said:
    I can't imagine it'll make much difference, given that Muslims could already own jewelry and coins. I'm sure that those that are serious gold bugs have already driven a truck through that "loophole". After all, for the longest time gold bullion was illegal in India, and the people just vacuumed it up as jewelry, where the jewelry was basically unadorned heavy chains or bracelets of gold.

    You're focusing on physical ownership. Consider the demand that will be created when over 100 million Muslims are permitted to invest in gold related equities and ETFs. Look for Eastern exchanges to begin offering numerous new methods to invest in gold.

    I'm still not clear if muslims can only invest in financial instruments that are 100% backed by gold. Continuing to restrict them from the derivative gold plays could limit this new demand.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2017 12:31PM

    Gold is just another commodity.
    Here is the gold chart ( 30 day) from kitco.

    kitco.com/LFgif/au0030lnb.gif

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @SkyMan said:
    I can't imagine it'll make much difference, given that Muslims could already own jewelry and coins. I'm sure that those that are serious gold bugs have already driven a truck through that "loophole". After all, for the longest time gold bullion was illegal in India, and the people just vacuumed it up as jewelry, where the jewelry was basically unadorned heavy chains or bracelets of gold.

    You're focusing on physical ownership. Consider the demand that will be created when over 100 million Muslims are permitted to invest in gold related equities and ETFs. Look for Eastern exchanges to begin offering numerous new methods to invest in gold.

    I'm still not clear if muslims can only invest in financial instruments that are 100% backed by gold. Continuing to restrict them from the derivative gold plays could limit this new demand.

    They don't have any money to invest.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    your ignorance is showing. . . again.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    your ignorance is showing. . . again.

    Yup...I'm the master ignoranous. Lol

    Maybe you should check into the average wealth of countries that are largely muslim. I'll help you out since I know your not too good at doing independent research.

    Indonesia 14% of total Muslim population
    India 12% of total Muslim population.
    Pakistan 12% of total Muslim population.
    Bangladesh 9% of total population.

    That's about 50% of the total pop where the median per capita annual income is about or less than $600. How much gold are they going to buy on $600 income per year?

    And I didn't even account for the Muslim countries in Africa that have less than $300 per year in income.

    You think the Saudi sheiks don't already own gold? Lol. And remember those gold vending machines in Dubai? Remember the pictures of Muslims putting their paper money in them? Those that can afford to have already been buying gold.

    There just aren't enough people with investable assets to make a dent in demand.

    Or just call me ignorant. ;)

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2017 6:35AM

    @cohodk said:

    There just aren't enough people with investable assets to make a dent in demand.

    Or just call me ignorant. ;)

    Even though Muslim's make up one-third of the world's population, It's not just about the number of people. From my earlier link: "At current prices, if Islamic financial institutions allocate to gold just 2% of the assets they manage, it would equal roughly 1000 tonnes of extra demand…[and] this new demand could help push gold prices higher in 2017 and, while this initial allocation may be a one-off event…it will be an ongoing source of gold demand into the future."

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are you now backing off the 100 million more investors?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2017 11:41AM

    @cohodk said:
    Are you now backing off the 100 million more investors?

    twisting words again? What I said was "consider the demand that will be created when over 100 million Muslims are permitted to invest in gold related equities and ETFs." Never said or implied that all 100 million would invest. Did say the pool of potential investors/speculators is about to grow to include not only physical bullion buyers but buyers of gold-backed paper as well. Aside from a world-wide increase in individual investors there should also be a massive increase in institutional investors. Not all Muslims are poverty stricken nor do all of them live in the deserts of the middle east.

    You really should learn to stick your head up out of the box and glance at the big picture occasionally. You might even catch a glimpse of reality.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love ya derryb.

    Keep up the good work. ;)

    If you only knew.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭

    Demand is not created by permission...

    keceph `anah
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rawteam1 said:
    Demand is not created by permission...

    quit being so naive. If the laws that govern your ability to freely own gold were to change, what would that do to demand and ultimately prices?

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @rawteam1 said:
    Demand is not created by permission...

    quit being so naive. If the laws that govern your ability to freely own gold were to change, what would that do to demand and ultimately prices?

    Well, in 1933 it caused such a stir that Americans stopped trusting government ... while bankers made book. The rest of us started burying it or hoarding it, just in case GOLD went higher than 20 bucks per ounce.
    AND IT HAS.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @derryb said:

    @rawteam1 said:
    Demand is not created by permission...

    quit being so naive. If the laws that govern your ability to freely own gold were to change, what would that do to demand and ultimately prices?

    Well, in 1933 it caused such a stir that Americans stopped trusting government ... while bankers made book. The rest of us started burying it or hoarding it, just in case GOLD went higher than 20 bucks per ounce.
    AND IT HAS.

    And you had to trade underground and off the radar and then wait over 35 years before you could publicly sell. Laws to freely own and trade gold (permission) are a definite asset to demand. Laws that prevent you from doing so put a lid on demand.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, let's think about what Prohibition of substances that are in Demand (or the lack or end of prohibition) does to prices, quality, and safety of trading in those substances, as well as the effects on producers, on consumers, on those who make markets in them, the distribution of who makes the profits and how much profit, and how markets are regulated, and of course, the variety and diversity of the range of products available. No matter one's opinions, it's a very interesting subject.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You need to put yourself in the position of others. Say you are an owner of a convenience market in Baghdad. There is no guarantee that the business will be there next year. There is no guarantee the Iraqi Dinar will be worth what it is today. There is no guarantee your bank will be around tomorrow. Yet you are making a few $100 a day profit. Do you put your profit in a bank or buy gold and hide it?

    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @EagleEye said:
    You need to put yourself in the position of others. Say you are an owner of a convenience market in Baghdad. There is no guarantee that the business will be there next year. There is no guarantee the Iraqi Dinar will be worth what it is today. There is no guarantee your bank will be around tomorrow. Yet you are making a few $100 a day profit. Do you put your profit in a bank or buy gold and hide it?

    Or good old US dollars? Freely traded and eagerly wanted.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @derryb said:

    @rawteam1 said:
    Demand is not created by permission...

    quit being so naive. If the laws that govern your ability to freely own gold were to change, what would that do to demand and ultimately prices?

    Well, in 1933 it caused such a stir that Americans stopped trusting government ... while bankers made book. The rest of us started burying it or hoarding it, just in case GOLD went higher than 20 bucks per ounce.
    AND IT HAS.

    And you had to trade underground and off the radar and then wait over 35 years before you could publicly sell. Laws to freely own and trade gold (permission) are a definite asset to demand. Laws that prevent you from doing so put a lid on demand.

    People are usually willing to pay more for what they can't have. And when it is freely available it becomes a commodity.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @derryb said:

    @rawteam1 said:
    Demand is not created by permission...

    quit being so naive. If the laws that govern your ability to freely own gold were to change, what would that do to demand and ultimately prices?

    Well, in 1933 it caused such a stir that Americans stopped trusting government ... while bankers made book. The rest of us started burying it or hoarding it, just in case GOLD went higher than 20 bucks per ounce.
    AND IT HAS.

    And you had to trade underground and off the radar and then wait over 35 years before you could publicly sell. Laws to freely own and trade gold (permission) are a definite asset to demand. Laws that prevent you from doing so put a lid on demand.

    People are usually willing to pay more for what they can't have. And when it is freely available it becomes a commodity.

    You are looking only at the supply side of a two part equation. Takes both to make a sale.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @derryb said:

    @rawteam1 said:
    Demand is not created by permission...

    quit being so naive. If the laws that govern your ability to freely own gold were to change, what would that do to demand and ultimately prices?

    Well, in 1933 it caused such a stir that Americans stopped trusting government ... while bankers made book. The rest of us started burying it or hoarding it, just in case GOLD went higher than 20 bucks per ounce.
    AND IT HAS.

    And you had to trade underground and off the radar and then wait over 35 years before you could publicly sell. Laws to freely own and trade gold (permission) are a definite asset to demand. Laws that prevent you from doing so put a lid on demand.

    People are usually willing to pay more for what they can't have. And when it is freely available it becomes a commodity.

    You are looking only at the supply side...

    I am?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2017 9:07PM

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @derryb said:

    @rawteam1 said:
    Demand is not created by permission...

    quit being so naive. If the laws that govern your ability to freely own gold were to change, what would that do to demand and ultimately prices?

    Well, in 1933 it caused such a stir that Americans stopped trusting government ... while bankers made book. The rest of us started burying it or hoarding it, just in case GOLD went higher than 20 bucks per ounce.
    AND IT HAS.

    And you had to trade underground and off the radar and then wait over 35 years before you could publicly sell. Laws to freely own and trade gold (permission) are a definite asset to demand. Laws that prevent you from doing so put a lid on demand.

    People are usually willing to pay more for what they can't have. And when it is freely available it becomes a commodity.

    You are looking only at the supply side...

    I am?

    Yes, availability is a supply issue. Paying more because of less supply does not create more demand, it only creates higher prices.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @derryb said:

    @rawteam1 said:
    Demand is not created by permission...

    quit being so naive. If the laws that govern your ability to freely own gold were to change, what would that do to demand and ultimately prices?

    Well, in 1933 it caused such a stir that Americans stopped trusting government ... while bankers made book. The rest of us started burying it or hoarding it, just in case GOLD went higher than 20 bucks per ounce.
    AND IT HAS.

    And you had to trade underground and off the radar and then wait over 35 years before you could publicly sell. Laws to freely own and trade gold (permission) are a definite asset to demand. Laws that prevent you from doing so put a lid on demand.

    People are usually willing to pay more for what they can't have. And when it is freely available it becomes a commodity.

    You are looking only at the supply side...

    I am?

    Yes, availability is a supply issue. Paying more because of less supply does not create more demand, it only creates higher prices.

    Interesting. If the Muslims are not permitted to buy gold then it is unavailable to them. That's not a supply issue.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2017 5:46PM

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @derryb said:

    @rawteam1 said:
    Demand is not created by permission...

    quit being so naive. If the laws that govern your ability to freely own gold were to change, what would that do to demand and ultimately prices?

    Well, in 1933 it caused such a stir that Americans stopped trusting government ... while bankers made book. The rest of us started burying it or hoarding it, just in case GOLD went higher than 20 bucks per ounce.
    AND IT HAS.

    And you had to trade underground and off the radar and then wait over 35 years before you could publicly sell. Laws to freely own and trade gold (permission) are a definite asset to demand. Laws that prevent you from doing so put a lid on demand.

    People are usually willing to pay more for what they can't have. And when it is freely available it becomes a commodity.

    You are looking only at the supply side...

    I am?

    Yes, availability is a supply issue. Paying more because of less supply does not create more demand, it only creates higher prices.

    Interesting. If the Muslims are not permitted to buy gold then it is unavailable to them. That's not a supply issue.

    Correct, removing buyers is a demand issue.

    However, this does not change the fact that your earlier statement: "People are usually willing to pay more for what they can't have," was correctly identified as the supply side of price discovery.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No....the disruption is on the demand side. Not supply. Supply does not change

    They can have all the gold they want...it is readily available...but something disrupts the demand side.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If they can't have it because it's not available to be had then it's a supply issue.

    If they can't have it because someone says they can't have what is available then, yes, it becomes a demand issue.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2017 6:54AM

    They can't have it because their stupid religion says they can't have it. Not a supply issue. Some dont adhere to their religion and will gladly pay a premium for what they supposedly aren't allowed to have. When they are allowed to have it, premium will drop. Lustre will diminish. It becomes a commodity.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2017 4:57PM

    Gold-backed Currency Launches in Dubai

    "The launch of OneGram is part of the new wave of gold financial products that we are beginning to see as a result of the Shariah Gold Standard. Muslims have long looked for more gold products to be made available to them in the $2 trillion Islamic financial markets."

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is great news. It'll be far easier for me to store gold backed currency than to store gold coins and bars. ;)

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • ShadyDaveShadyDave Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    Gold-backed Currency Launches in Dubai

    "The launch of OneGram is part of the new wave of gold financial products that we are beginning to see as a result of the Shariah Gold Standard. Muslims have long looked for more gold products to be made available to them in the $2 trillion Islamic financial markets."

    Sounds like there will be an explosion of growth in this Muslim market.... :D

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is an interesting area of speculation.... Although not for me, I am curious if it will even budge the needle in the gold market... We shall see....Cheers, RickO

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ShadyDave said:

    @derryb said:
    Gold-backed Currency Launches in Dubai

    "The launch of OneGram is part of the new wave of gold financial products that we are beginning to see as a result of the Shariah Gold Standard. Muslims have long looked for more gold products to be made available to them in the $2 trillion Islamic financial markets."

    Sounds like there will be an explosion of growth in this Muslim market.... :D

    Hope they avoid the paper market.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭

    Lol, they have to pawn the gold off on someone...

    keceph `anah
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well that came and went like a stale bag of Fritos.

    I think I was correct in my statement above.

    Nada, nil, no impact at all.

    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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