@jmski52 said:
Still, why are silver premiums higher than historic silver premiums while gold premiums seem to be about what they've always been? Have the fundamentals changed for one, but not the other?
How long ago are the "historic" premiums? 5 years? 15 years?
gold eagle premiums are up over the last five years. I remember paying premiums of 3,5,7 and 9 percent for the $50, $25, $10 and $5 AGEs buying from Tulving. I agree that silver premiums (especially ASEs) are up much higher than gold premiums.
Why? Might have something to do with the fact that silver is down approx. 300% from its Dec. 2010 high while gold is down only 57% from its Dec. 2010 high. Buyers may have higher expectations for silver and are therefore willing to pay more premium.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@derryb said:
gold eagle premiums are up over the last five years. I remember paying premiums of 3,5,7 and 9 percent for the $50, $25, $10 and $5 AGEs buying from Tulving. I agree that silver premiums (especially ASEs) are up much higher than gold premiums.
Why? Might have something to do with the fact that silver is down approx. 300% from its Dec. 2010 high while gold is down only 57% from its Dec. 2010 high. Buyers may have higher expectations for silver and are therefore willing to pay more premium.
When did the Mint last raise their premiums for ASEs and AGEs?
I've talked with a few private dealers, not saying they're right or wrong, and they feel there's an expectation for silver to go back up to close to summer prices. So they've kept their premiums up. I don't think they've really sold much, but they keep the premiums up. Personally, I think one is just greedy. Buys at 15% under spot and tries to sell for 25% over. Key word is tries.
@metalsaver1970 said:
I've talked with a few private dealers, not saying they're right or wrong, and they feel there's an expectation for silver to go back up to close to summer prices. So they've kept their premiums up. I don't think they've really sold much, but they keep the premiums up. Personally, I think one is just greedy. Buys at 15% under spot and tries to sell for 25% over. Key word is tries.
Who are the maroons selling to him at 15% back of spot?
@BAJJERFAN That's a question he hasn't answered. I think he just tries to take advantage of people. Funny thing is, I never see much new items. I try to avoid him as much as possible.
I buy and sell. I'm not buried in it. LOL. Just to dispel "rumors".
What premium do you charge? Ballpark.
Since I'm a coin dealer and not a bullion dealer, I try my best to steer clear of adding a premium or even playing in the field. I buy it low and sell it low when it's down. The phenomena is that more people panick sell their stash when prices are down, thus opening a window of opportunity . And most of you guys won't pay a premium for junk. Will you ?
@Baley said:
_Might have something to do with the fact that silver is down approx. 300% from its Dec. 2010 high _
Prices can't go down more than 100%.
right you are. Silver is selling for one third of what it did.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
The view depends on how it applies to the topic of discussion - why higher premiums.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
cutting losses, $2.14 is less than what the AP wholesalers pay. Prices will eek lower until the cat claws its way out of the bag by the end of the first quarter.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
cutting losses, $2.14 is less than what the AP wholesalers pay. Prices will eek lower until the cat claws its way out of the bag by the end of the first quarter.
Oh so now it's "cutting losses", lol, few days ago "they knew and were confident ", amongst a bunch of other nonsense... hilarious side show...
cutting losses, $2.14 is less than what the AP wholesalers pay. Prices will eek lower until the cat claws its way out of the bag by the end of the first quarter.
Oh so now it's "cutting losses", lol, few days ago "they knew and were confident ", amongst a bunch of other nonsense... hilarious side show...
A specific answer for a specific instance. Why else would a seller sell for less than he paid?
(1) Learn basics,
(2) then troll. lol.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
cutting losses, $2.14 is less than what the AP wholesalers pay. Prices will eek lower until the cat claws its way out of the bag by the end of the first quarter.
AP wholesalers pay $2 over spot from the Mint. Did you mean $2.14 or $2.41? So ASEs start at a $2 premium right out of the gate. Each seller/dealer in the chain adds their own markup/premium that hopefully ensures them a profit.
How long ago are the "historic" premiums? 5 years? 15 years?
Time does fly. The last time I was actually shopping around for silver was 2006-2008, and it does seem to me that 90% carried very little premium then, while ASEs were maybe $1.50 over spot. Then again, prices were between $6.00 and $12.00 when I was doing that, so the percentage might have been about the same as now. Prior to that, I know that there were times not too much earlier, when 90% sold at a discount to spot.
What motivates my resurgent interest in silver at this point is a hunch that supplies may be dwindling. 'course, I've had that feeling for about the last 45 years.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
cutting losses, $2.14 is less than what the AP wholesalers pay. Prices will eek lower until the cat claws its way out of the bag by the end of the first quarter.
Oh so now it's "cutting losses", lol, few days ago "they knew and were confident ", amongst a bunch of other nonsense... hilarious side show...
A specific answer for a specific instance. Why else would a seller sell for less than he paid?
(1) Learn basics,
(2) then troll. lol.
You mean these guys cut losses on their insurance??? Lol...
insurance premiums are declining. they are cutting their losses on what they have invested in what they are selling.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@jmski52 said: How long ago are the "historic" premiums? 5 years? 15 years?
Time does fly. The last time I was actually shopping around for silver was 2006-2008, and it does seem to me that 90% carried very little premium then, while ASEs were maybe $1.50 over spot. Then again, prices were between $6.00 and $12.00 when I was doing that, so the percentage might have been about the same as now. Prior to that, I know that there were times not too much earlier, when 90% sold at a discount to spot.
What motivates my resurgent interest in silver at this point is a hunch that supplies may be dwindling. 'course, I've had that feeling for about the last 45 years.
More likely than not, people have just lost interest in stacking silver for whatever reason/s. Maybe they don't have the funds or have the silver that they need/want or they'd prefer to invest in something like stocks.
Who buys insurance to redeem it back in what they deem worthless?... if it's ever redeemable...
I redeemed a half bag of halves in 2011 or so - to help finance a Large Cent. The silver will always be redeemable. The Large Cent, now that's a totally different story........
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Simple math shows that if your premium is a fixed dollar amount, when the price falls the percentage premium will go up. If silver goes to $3 then the $3 premium will be 100%. if it goes to $300 the $3 premium will be 1%
Correct, assuming the premium in dollars remains unchanged. However, if you look at recent trends of "price over spot" for something like ASEs, you will find that the premium, in dollars, has been steadily increasing as spot price falls. ASEs are bringing their highest ever premium in "dollars," largely because of the belief of sellers that the paper spot price is largely undervalued.
Ebay sales of individual ASEs are in the 23-25 price range.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@derryb said:
Correct, assuming the premium in dollars remains unchanged. However, if you look at recent trends of "price over spot" for something like ASEs, you will find that the premium, in dollars, has been steadily increasing as spot price falls. ASEs are bringing their highest ever premium in "dollars," largely because of the belief of sellers that the paper spot price is largely undervalued.
Ebay sales of individual ASEs are in the 23-25 price range.
Frankly, on eBay it isn't worth the effort to sell single coins for less after eBay/PP/shipping expenses. For the person wanting 1 or 2 and no local outlet, there aren't a lot of options. If someone was wanting to buy a single here for $20 delivered, it wouldn't be worth the hassle either, esp. if your cost was $18+.
@cohodk said:
No rational people are paying $23-$25 for an ASE.
Folks buying a few Xmas gifts with the least shopping friction possible aren't rational? Explain please, on the angle of your support for value of time.
@cohodk said:
No rational people are paying $23-$25 for an ASE.
Folks buying a few Xmas gifts with the least shopping friction possible aren't rational? Explain please, on the angle of your support for value of time.
They are about as rational as the folks who pay $2 for a can of Pepsi at the Git 'n Go instead of paying $2.50 for a 12 pack of the same cans at their local supermarket.
@cohodk said:
No rational people are paying $23-$25 for an ASE.
Folks buying a few Xmas gifts with the least shopping friction possible aren't rational? Explain please, on the angle of your support for value of time.
Pretty much what the Badger said.
But ti the thread, is it accurate to say the premium on ASE is very high because a few Christmas shoppers?
"Physical silver metal " is widely available very near melt value. It will generally be in bulk amounts, and boring,common, ugly. To the extent "premium " is paid, that extra money is voluntarily paid for numismatic (collector) value ( preferences for beauty or "neat") and/ or convenience ( singles, shipping/handling/processing)
@cohodk said:
No rational people are paying $23-$25 for an ASE.
Folks buying a few Xmas gifts with the least shopping friction possible aren't rational? Explain please, on the angle of your support for value of time.
Pretty much what the Badger said.
But ti the thread, is it accurate to say the premium on ASE is very high because a few Christmas shoppers?
The premium on ASE is not $8.
Again, value of time. A once a year purchase vs a item that might be in the fridge year round. $24~ delivered as a convenience vs clipping coupons. Is what it is but don't discount what it is.
I paid $26/oz for what I gave out at Xmas, small quantity, convenience, lack of local availability...don't discount value of time...my time is worth more than the premium, is yours?
Time is the only thing of value any of us have and some value it more than others. I've spent a grand a day for 2 weeks for a "good time". I've even spent $20 for a song.
@cohodk said:
Time is the only thing of value any of us have and some value it more than others.
Then you should invest in clocks.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@derryb said:
ASEs are bringing their highest ever premium in "dollars," largely because of the belief of sellers that the paper spot price is largely undervalued.
Ebay sales of individual ASEs are in the 23-25 price range.
Besides being a factually false statement,
I would equate these sellers "belief " with the greatest of ignorance ...
I'll take your word for it that you are the expert on ignorance. lol.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Comments
How long ago are the "historic" premiums? 5 years? 15 years?
gold eagle premiums are up over the last five years. I remember paying premiums of 3,5,7 and 9 percent for the $50, $25, $10 and $5 AGEs buying from Tulving. I agree that silver premiums (especially ASEs) are up much higher than gold premiums.
Why? Might have something to do with the fact that silver is down approx. 300% from its Dec. 2010 high while gold is down only 57% from its Dec. 2010 high. Buyers may have higher expectations for silver and are therefore willing to pay more premium.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
When did the Mint last raise their premiums for ASEs and AGEs?
I've talked with a few private dealers, not saying they're right or wrong, and they feel there's an expectation for silver to go back up to close to summer prices. So they've kept their premiums up. I don't think they've really sold much, but they keep the premiums up. Personally, I think one is just greedy. Buys at 15% under spot and tries to sell for 25% over. Key word is tries.
Who are the maroons selling to him at 15% back of spot?
@BAJJERFAN That's a question he hasn't answered. I think he just tries to take advantage of people. Funny thing is, I never see much new items. I try to avoid him as much as possible.
One size fits all .... except to a forward looking promoter.
Since I'm a coin dealer and not a bullion dealer, I try my best to steer clear of adding a premium or even playing in the field. I buy it low and sell it low when it's down. The phenomena is that more people panick sell their stash when prices are down, thus opening a window of opportunity . And most of you guys won't pay a premium for junk. Will you ?
I don't even like to pay a premium for "good stuff".
Silver is silver and gold is gold.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
_Might have something to do with the fact that silver is down approx. 300% from its Dec. 2010 high _
Prices can't go down more than 100%.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
right you are. Silver is selling for one third of what it did.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
It's the new math Baley. Lol
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Or 4x more than than just 14 years ago. I suppose the view depends on whether one is a pessimist or optimist.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The view depends on how it applies to the topic of discussion - why higher premiums.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
True, if you believe that silver won't have a value of less than zero.
If silver goes below zero, I'm out
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Not gonna pay me to dispose of it for you, huh?
@BAJJERFAN
Perhaps it will be declared "hazardous" someday, the way things have been going.
Then we may have to pay to get rid of it.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
negative premium
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
From the deals thread.....weren't ASEs trading with a 3-4$ premium?
ASE'S @ $2.41 over
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-American-Silver-Eagle-1-oz-1-5-Rolls-100-BU-Coins-in-5-Mint-Tubes-/401059376233?_trkparms=5373:6000000123|5374:Last+Chance+Gold+and+Silver+Deals+
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
cutting losses, $2.14 is less than what the AP wholesalers pay. Prices will eek lower until the cat claws its way out of the bag by the end of the first quarter.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Oh so now it's "cutting losses", lol, few days ago "they knew and were confident ", amongst a bunch of other nonsense... hilarious side show...
A specific answer for a specific instance. Why else would a seller sell for less than he paid?
(1) Learn basics,
(2) then troll. lol.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
AP wholesalers pay $2 over spot from the Mint. Did you mean $2.14 or $2.41? So ASEs start at a $2 premium right out of the gate. Each seller/dealer in the chain adds their own markup/premium that hopefully ensures them a profit.
How long ago are the "historic" premiums? 5 years? 15 years?
Time does fly. The last time I was actually shopping around for silver was 2006-2008, and it does seem to me that 90% carried very little premium then, while ASEs were maybe $1.50 over spot. Then again, prices were between $6.00 and $12.00 when I was doing that, so the percentage might have been about the same as now. Prior to that, I know that there were times not too much earlier, when 90% sold at a discount to spot.
What motivates my resurgent interest in silver at this point is a hunch that supplies may be dwindling. 'course, I've had that feeling for about the last 45 years.
I knew it would happen.
You mean these guys cut losses on their insurance??? Lol...
these guys are selling the insurance. buy some.
insurance premiums are declining. they are cutting their losses on what they have invested in what they are selling.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
More likely than not, people have just lost interest in stacking silver for whatever reason/s. Maybe they don't have the funds or have the silver that they need/want or they'd prefer to invest in something like stocks.
Since the shortage they have added prolly 7 billion ozs plus...
Oh wait Ted said there was only less than a billion 10-20-30 years ago... alotta insurance to go around...
Who buys insurance to redeem it back in what they deem worthless?... if it's ever redeemable...
Who buys insurance to redeem it back in what they deem worthless?... if it's ever redeemable...
I redeemed a half bag of halves in 2011 or so - to help finance a Large Cent. The silver will always be redeemable. The Large Cent, now that's a totally different story........
I knew it would happen.
Simple math shows that if your premium is a fixed dollar amount, when the price falls the percentage premium will go up. If silver goes to $3 then the $3 premium will be 100%. if it goes to $300 the $3 premium will be 1%
Correct, assuming the premium in dollars remains unchanged. However, if you look at recent trends of "price over spot" for something like ASEs, you will find that the premium, in dollars, has been steadily increasing as spot price falls. ASEs are bringing their highest ever premium in "dollars," largely because of the belief of sellers that the paper spot price is largely undervalued.
Ebay sales of individual ASEs are in the 23-25 price range.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Frankly, on eBay it isn't worth the effort to sell single coins for less after eBay/PP/shipping expenses. For the person wanting 1 or 2 and no local outlet, there aren't a lot of options. If someone was wanting to buy a single here for $20 delivered, it wouldn't be worth the hassle either, esp. if your cost was $18+.
No rational people are paying $23-$25 for an ASE.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
They aren't all as savvy as the folks here.
Folks buying a few Xmas gifts with the least shopping friction possible aren't rational? Explain please, on the angle of your support for value of time.
They are about as rational as the folks who pay $2 for a can of Pepsi at the Git 'n Go instead of paying $2.50 for a 12 pack of the same cans at their local supermarket.
Pretty much what the Badger said.
But ti the thread, is it accurate to say the premium on ASE is very high because a few Christmas shoppers?
The premium on ASE is not $8.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
"Physical silver metal " is widely available very near melt value. It will generally be in bulk amounts, and boring,common, ugly. To the extent "premium " is paid, that extra money is voluntarily paid for numismatic (collector) value ( preferences for beauty or "neat") and/ or convenience ( singles, shipping/handling/processing)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Again, value of time. A once a year purchase vs a item that might be in the fridge year round. $24~ delivered as a convenience vs clipping coupons. Is what it is but don't discount what it is.
I paid $26/oz for what I gave out at Xmas, small quantity, convenience, lack of local availability...don't discount value of time...my time is worth more than the premium, is yours?
Time is the only thing of value any of us have and some value it more than others. I've spent a grand a day for 2 weeks for a "good time". I've even spent $20 for a song.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Then you should invest in clocks.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I would prefer to invest where a good or service is created. Clocks do not create time.
Clocks may be more up your alley as you seem to have a preference to invest in things that are non-productive.
Perhaps an investment in the relativity of time would suit you well.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Besides being a factually false statement,
I would equate these sellers "belief " with the greatest of ignorance ...
I'll take your word for it that you are the expert on ignorance. lol.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Happy New Years people.
Do it again next year.
I learn a lot here.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
hmmm, let's see, should we give advice, sell PMs, and pocket "premium", or take advice, buy PMs, and pay "premium", hmm
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Baley - "it depends"!
Happy New Year, all.