Can You Identify the Engraver of this Philadelphia-Related Medal?

MedalCollector

I just thought the engraving was skillful enough, that the engraver may be well known.

Gilt Bronze
38mm diameter
3mm thickness
Holed

Does anyone have an idea? I've obtained another medal with a different obverse design that I'll post later.

Thanks in advance!

jonathanb

Key made religious medals of that sort. Most of those were signed though.

ricko

No idea, but it is a very attractive medal.... Cheers, RickO

MedalCollector

Here are photos of the medal with a different obverse.

Bronzed Copper
38mm diameter
3mm thickness
Holed

There are a few characteristics of the 3 designs that I think hold clues to who the engraver was. This is assuming that all three dies were made by the same individual. There is a possibility that they weren't, considering how frequently dies were exchanged by minters at this time.

The star and rays:

Surrounding ground detail:

Facial features of the woman:

The dotted nature of the water:

@jonathanb said:
Key made religious medals of that sort. Most of those were signed though.

That is a possibility. Another one of the details that holds a clue to who the engraver was, is the stylized lettering on the obverse of the first medal. I was able to find a Key medal (the Garfield medal pictured below) that had similar stylized lettering. While I know that there likely existed more than one set of letter punches of this style, it is certainly rarer to find. Key used many different lettering styles and sizes across designs, but even used many different lettering styles within single die designs.

I also found another medal (unpictured) with the same stylized lettering that was signed by an engraver "M". I'm not sure if this was George Morgan or not.

coindeuce

My guess would be Peter Krider, based primarily on timing and location relevant to the medal.
KRIDER, Peter L. (1821-1903?) engraver, diesinker, medalist, silversmith,
Philadelphia (active 1873-1903).
Established 1850 as silversmith, first with R. & W. Wilson,
later in partnership as Krider & Biddle with John W. Biddle
(1867-72) but whose only major numismatic work was the
Cincinnati Industrial Exposition Medal of 1872 (engraved
by Anthony C. Paquet). Later in business by himself as
Peter L. Krider Company, until 1903, during which he
executed many medals.
Because of his location in Philadelphia and relationship
with Mint personnel he did medallic work that came to
the Mint but they could not do (as political, campaign
medals), he also struck private medals by Mint engravers
(Paquet, Charles Barber) and perhaps did their overflow
work as well.
Died 1903 or later.

291fifth

Not by a major medallic sculptor. The style is crude. Probably by a staff artist/sculptor who produced badges for a company that produced them during this period.

RogerB

The Garfield medal is by Morgan, the font is not the same.
Your "Christmas Morn" medal is in the style of several New York City engravers/diesinkers operating from the 1850s through the 1880s such as Emil Sigel. As 291fifth noted, the workmanship is crude and rough. Geometry and human form were not the artist's strengths.

MedalCollector

@291fifth said:
Not by a major medallic sculptor. The style is crude. Probably by a staff artist/sculptor who produced badges for a company that produced them during this period.

I don't feel that any of the three designs are worse than the poorer works of, for example, Key or Morgan. None of these should be ruled out. That's why I thought there may be a chance of someone recognizing the style.

@RogerB said:
The Garfield medal is by Morgan, the font is not the same.

I have to apologize. The Garfield medal is signed by Key and the other medal that I reference, signed "M", is not pictured. What I wrote is confusing and it'll be edited.

@RogerB said:
Your "Christmas Morn" medal is in the style of several New York City engravers/diesinkers operating from the 1850s through the 1880s such as Emil Sigel. As 291fifth noted, the workmanship is crude and rough. Geometry and human form were not the artist's strengths.

Thank you. That is helpful. Maybe it is too difficult to distinguish who ultimately engraved this piece, but hopefully I'll be able to connect the dots.

RogerB

Sorry for the confusion on the Garfield medal....Morgan made one also.

EagleEye

Christmas Morn side looks like its by Anthony Paquet. The font is similar to his Snowden medal. Also compare the font to this Washington Medal:https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/971735/paquets-washington-medal-1860

coindeuce

@EagleEye said:
Christmas Morn side looks like its by Anthony Paquet. The font is similar to his Snowden medal. Also compare the font to this Washington Medal:https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/971735/paquets-washington-medal-1860

Paquet signed or initialed all of his work without deviation.

MedalCollector

@coindeuce said:
My guess would be Peter Krider, based primarily on timing and location relevant to the medal.

I think he is a strong candidate. Many of his medals had bronzed and gilt finishes very similar to the two medals above. One of Krider's medals, depicting Oak Hall, is very similar in terms of design and skill-level to the Christ Church design as well.

You mention timing. What is your date estimate for the two medals depicted? Are you thinking the first medal may have been produced in celebration of the bicentennial of Pennsylvania in the early 1880s?

coindeuce

The medals may have been struck in 1883 to celebrate completion of the remodeling of the interior. The Church is an iconic landmark, as the tallest architectural structure in America before 1811.