My big purchase at the Baltimore show
BillJones
Posts: 34,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
I went to this show hoping to find a few Classic Head $2.50 and $5.00 gold coins for the two sets I'm collecting. I did find a couple of pieces although they were both common dates. The "find" though was this 1797, 16 star half dime, die variety number LM-3. I have owned the other 1797, 16 star variety, LM-2 for many years, but this was a huge upgrade from the piece I had. I was amazed to find find it. This is an R-5 rated variety (estimated 31 to 75 known). My experience tells me that this piece is on the lower end of estimate with less than 40 or 50 known. The other 16 star variety is more common. The grade is PCGS AU-53 with a very nice original look.
Later I'll talk about the differences between the two varieties.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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The picture function failed again. I'll try another time:
Stunner, looks like it has eye appealing toning too. Was the seller aware of the variety or was it unattributed?
Wow, great detail and originality.....looks AU 58.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Sorry guys, no pictures.
> @ShadyDave said:
It was unattributed, but he knew it was the one I didn't have. There are four 1797 half dime varieties, 1 with 15 stars, 2 with 16 stars and one with 13 stars which is the rare one.
I had eye ball it quickly to make sure what it was. The book says you have count berries on the wreath, but this one you need only look at the eagle. The "short eagle" is never struck up and comes on the 15 and 16 star varieties. This coin could be in MS-65 and it would not be much sharper. As is this one is "my Fine-12" and a slab VF-20. This is the best low grade early half dime I've ever seen. This is the LM-2.
Yes, it is, except for the scratch on the neck, which I think knocked 2 to 5 points off the grade. It doesn't matter. You don't see this much originality very often then days. That scrach is as old as the rest of the toning.
Wow! A super Small-Eagle Half Dime purchase...Congratulations!!
Here is a 15 star, LM-1. This one has the "short eagle" like the LM-2. The coin grades AU-53, but the eagle does not show vlery much detail.
very nice find, always interesting to read your posts
That is a stellar piece Bill. I love it. Congrats & enjoy.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Super coin, congrats on the pick up!
Great find and cool coin!
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Very nice. The scratch blends in very well and I didn't even notice it at first glance. The hair detail is quite amazing and I was staring at it overlooking the neckline!
Congrats Bill
Steve
That is an amazing beautiful specimen. I'd be very happy to own it. Congrats.
Nice early half dime! I have the 13 stars variety and the 15 stars varieties, but I sold my damaged 16 stars example in 2008. I do not recall which die marriage it was, but it had many problems. Sometimes I wonder if most surviving examples of this type didn't come out of the ground on the shovel of a lucky metal detectorist.
These tiny coins did not fare well in circulation. They were often unevenly struck, and the design did not have a protective rim to help shield the design features from wear. It is rare to see these coins in less than Choice VF without problems. Many are bent, scratched or unevenly worn when they get in the lower grades.
That's why I stated that the "short eagle" piece I posted was "the best Fine-12 on the planet." It looks cleaned in my photo, but it isn't. It's nicely toned but that set of photos is the only one I have before I had it certified.
Wow, outstanding coin Bill, congratulations. And kudos to the service for net grading the marks, I find it truly tragic when they "genuine" early pieces with test marks that were inflicted more than 200 years ago, when the coins, and country, were brand new.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Very nice coins!!! Congratulations
A decent looking coin. But the first thing that jumped out at me was the cut on the neck...a major focal point of the coin. If someone else around here had posted a VF or higher bust or seated half dime with such a mark, I think they would have had more negative comments than positive ones. The scratch does not blend in. I understand that in a rare variety you accept the best you can find, when you can find it.
oh wow. congrats! the skin looks thick
You can't please everybody ...
The scratch does not amount to that much on a very small coin, and is really only noticeable with a 10X glass on the first examination. It is totally toned over with the same color as the rest of the obverse and is obviously very old. As I stated up front, this coin would have graded AU-58 or 55 without it, probably AU-58.
You probably won't like most of the other early half dimes in my set. All of them have something to quibble about, except for the fact that all but a couple of the very rare ones have original surfaces. These coins are tough as nails to find in any grade, and are often over graded and cleaned.
The worst I've seen in a no problem holder was a 1796 half dime that had been polished and given a layer of artificial toning in an attempt to cover the problem. The AT took care of the problem for the grading company which gave it an AU-55. I also saw an 1802 half dime that had a major issue on the reverse that still rated a VF-30. That one sold at auction for $139,000.
My point is, you either buy coins with minor problems in this series or you will most often buy nothing. These coins are much tougher than the Bust Dollars of the same type. The only early coins that are harder are the 1796-7 half dollars.
My point is, you either buy coins with minor problems in this series or you will most often buy nothing.
You got that right. I'm not seeing anyone showing off their nicer examples of draped bust small eagle half dimes, particularly this rare variety. In fact, we very seldom see someone post an example of the type in any grade
I can count on one hand the number of collectors on this forum that I'm aware have a draped bust small eagle half dime
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
_ If someone else around here had posted a VF or higher bust or seated half dime with such a mark, I think they would have had more negative comments than positive ones._
Well OF COURSE!! And if such a mark were on a 2015 Jefferson nickel, we'd ALL say, "pass, it's very easy to find better"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Great looking coin. Congrats on the addition.
Mike
Nice coin and great learning about it!
Holy cow!! What a beauty Bill Jones has in his collection! I am totally impressed
...You have a great eye and an amazing collection.
When James Ruddy was putting together the pictures for his first Photo Grade book, he said that the Draped Bust, Small Eagle silver coins gave him the biggest challenge when he was looking for the typical for the grade, no problem pieces.
As type collector I can tell you that the Bust Dollars offer the least challenge. There are usually 1796 and 1797 dated coins around if you have the money. The half dollars are legendary for their degree of difficulty. Then comes the 1796 Quarter and the 1796-7 dimes. The half dimes are really tough, just as a type coin. The most common one is the 1797 with the 15 star reverse which is rated as an R-3 (201 to 500 known). That estimate includes a lot of unattractive, problem coins. The EFs, AUs and Mint State coins are few and far between. Once you start collecting varieties, it gets much tougher.
To put that rarity number in context for the 1797, 15 star half dime, the 1792 half disme is also rated as an R-3.
So true.
All the top 1802 specimens have problems, if defined as marks which are large relative to the coin diameter.
And the problems are especially noticeable when you enlarge the coin image to fit a computer screen.
If you enlarge photos of other silver coins which circulated (such as dimes) by the same factor,
you will see similar sized marks. But they may not count as problems if defined as relative to coin diameter,
so it is an extremely strict standard to use (biased in favor of larger coins, which already have an advantage because they circulated less).
_ if defined as marks which are large relative to the coin diameter.
And the problems are especially noticeable when you enlarge them to fit a computer screen.
If you enlarge photos of other silver coins which circulated (such as dimes) by the same factor,
you will see similar sized marks. But they may not count as problems if defined as relative to coin diameter,
so it is an extremely strict standard to use._
That's a great, great point. Try this: Step back 15 feet from your computer, and then take another look at Bill's new coin.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
you did really well purchasing the 2. wtg
Amazing. Too bad I can't "Like" it more than once.
Very nice.
Hoard the keys.
We're all big boyz here who over our 40-50 years in the hobby have learned to grade coins proportionally, no matter how big or small they might be. Having done lots with seated half dimes and 3 cent silvers in my prime, I'm well versed in tiny coins....and putting a 10-16X glass to them as required, even when my vision was excellent. So we're all skilled at measuring that mark in our minds against the size of the figures or even the coin's diameter. It's just what we do. Stepping back 15 ft is not going to help any. Following Baley's suggestion I stepped back 15 ft and the mark sort of mushed away....until I put on my distance glasses. Then the mark was still the primary focus of the obverse. I don't disagree that it's a very worthy coin. I would still evaluate a half dime the same way whether it was an 1802 or a more common 1800.
I love it. The mark makes it unique and gives it character for me. I would take that look and color with the scratch over a lot of the shiny bright bust coins that I see any day.
Indeed, I often reduce my screen zoom to 25% (the min w/Google Chrome) when viewing coin images. Even at 25% this half dime is nearly the size of a half dollar on my screen!