The CircCam (Circulated Cameo) thread

kaz

There is something about the look of old silver, with the dark patina in the fields and around the devices, with the highpoints well defined in lighter gray to bright silver, that I find... relaxing.

Maybe it's because I also prefer classic black and white photography, which is also shades of silver.

So, I thought I would start a thread where members can post their circam coins. And maybe I'll also find the answer to a burning question: who coined the term "circam?" Was it Lord M.?

DDR

DDR

DDR

DDR

Kaz: As you can see, I too love the look of circulated cameo (and Carson City silver dollars)!

AUandAG

Weiss

dogwood

Of course circ cams arrived the way the are thru the partial cleaning of formerly dark coins but they sure are pretty there's no doubt about that.

lordmarcovan

I created the original CircCam thread (as well as the term), but since that's rather old and musty and a lot of the pictures are bad, I welcome a new one.



Nice stuff, y'all.



I'm a big fan of this look on circ silver, as you know.

kaz

Some really nice coins posted, thanks everybody. Bob's Columbian got me thinking about Circam Commems-- anyone else have some? I'd really like to see a Pilgrim. Hope y'all have a great weekend. I'm off to a CME conference.

ricko

Circam coins are great... reflective of some honest commerce .... and not necessarily an indication of previous cleaning...Cheers, RickO

kaz

Flatwoods

.

TomB

Originally posted by: dogwood

Of course circ cams arrived the way the are thru the partial cleaning of formerly dark coins but they sure are pretty there's no doubt about that.

I disagree with the above statement entirely. No doubt some coins received the look through a partial cleaning or intentionally being worn down, but that is no way, no how the case for an enormous number of pieces.



Think of it this way; take a table with some type of raised design or raised devices standing on its surface and then place grime, gunk, sludge, dirt or whatever you want on the surface. Now move that table around (shake it, tilt it, whatever) and where does all the dirt congregate? It would adhere to the edges of the raised devices and within any nooks and crannies in the raised design. Where would it be less likely to take hold? It would be less likely to take hold of the raised design or take hold of anything placed on the surface of the table.

AUandAG

Those of us that remember using silver dollars, halves, etc will argue with

the cleaning theory. Just normal grit and grime from the mechanic at the

service station, the bus boy at the diner, and all us kids that never washed

our hands led to the circulated cameos. Natural and normal.



bob

ProfLiz

Don't collect this type. Don't collect this grade. Fell in love with this look.

ProfLiz

kaz- Here's a circ-cam Connecticut:

Jackthecat1

Great coins, all of them!

dcarr

Eagleguy

Originally posted by: kaz

Some really nice coins posted, thanks everybody. Bob's Columbian got me thinking about Circam Commems-- anyone else have some? I'd really like to see a Pilgrim. Hope y'all have a great weekend. I'm off to a CME conference.

I used to own a circam Rhode Island. Unfortunately I cannot post photos right now.

Weiss

The Connecticut and the Lesher both rock pretty hard.

BryceM

Gotta have a Peace dollar. This lady did her time:

lkeigwin

lordmarcovan

Originally posted by: TomB

Originally posted by: dogwood

Of course circ cams arrived the way the are thru the partial cleaning of formerly dark coins but they sure are pretty there's no doubt about that.

I disagree with the above statement entirely. No doubt some coins received the look through a partial cleaning or intentionally being worn down, but that is no way, no how the case for an enormous number of pieces.



Think of it this way; take a table with some type of raised design or raised devices standing on its surface and then place grime, gunk, sludge, dirt or whatever you want on the surface. Now move that table around (shake it, tilt it, whatever) and where does all the dirt congregate? It would adhere to the edges of the raised devices and within any nooks and crannies in the raised design. Where would it be less likely to take hold? It would be less likely to take hold of the raised design or take hold of anything placed on the surface of the table.

I agree with TomB here.

Originally posted by: ProfLiz

Don't collect this type. Don't collect this grade. Fell in love with this look.

Barber halves with that look are great. I briefly worked on a Dansco album of them in VG-F grades.



This was one of the nicer ones in terms of CircCam look (and the images are scans, not photos).

Originally posted by: lkeigwin

Draped Bust halves for some reason often come with superb CircCam contrast.



(Note correct spelling: CircCam. )



I would love to include a piece with exactly the look of Lance's coin in my Box of 20 someday.

lordmarcovan

BryceM- that Peace dollar, while not as contrasting as a lot of CircCams, is probably about as nice a CircCam as you could expect with the relief of that design.







Nice Copper CircCams are harder to come by, without straying into "environmental damage" territory.



It's a pretty fine line. This Spiked Chin half cent was in a PCGS VF20 straight-grade slab.



(I initially thought there was a "fingerprint" by Liberty's bust on the obverse, until the copper guys set me straight and told me that's a characteristic of the type.)









Or bronze.



Ancient Roman Empire: orichalcum sestertius of Hadrian, struck ca. 134-138 AD, ex-Boston Museum of Fine Arts









Here are some others from my Box of 20.



(All re-runs, I'm afraid. With only 20 pieces in my core collection, I tend to repeat myself a bit.)



Here's the famous "Hippie Coin", with Tommy Chong playing St. Blasius.



Medieval Croatia (Ragusa): silver grosso portraying St. Blasius and Christ, ca. 1372-1438









Gold CircCams are always nice to have. Especially when they're nearly 600 years old.



Netherlands (Gelderland): "St. John" type gold gulden (florin) of Arnold van Egmond, ca. 1423-1472









I had to have this one for the design. It is away being graded by our hosts right now.



German States (Teutonic Order): silver 1/4 thaler of Grand Master Maximilian of Austria, undated (ca. 1615)

lordmarcovan

Then, with some ancients, you've got your "sandy" or "earthen" or "desert" patinas, which I affectionately refer to as DirtCams.



This is often seen on coins found in Spain or the Levant (Syria, Palestine, etc.)



Of course the cameo effect is often achieved by judicious cleaning of the design elements while leaving the patina intact on the fields. (And this is perfectly acceptable on ancient bronze.)



Troas, Birtytis: bronze AE8, ca. 300 BC







Seleucid Kingdom, bronze AE19 of Antiochus VIII, ca. 121-96 BC









Tarsos, Cilicia, bronze AE21, ca. 164-37 B.C.

Bronze AE 21, BMC Cilicia p. 180, 106; SNG Cop 333 - 341; SGCV II 5672, F, 6.493g, 21.6mm, 0o, Tarsos mint, c. 164 - 37 B.C.; obverse veiled and turreted head of Tyche right; countermark: radiate head of Helios within oval punch; reverse TARSEWN, pyramidal pyre of Sandan on a garlanded base, Sandan stands inside with animal between two altars, eagle on top



Sandan was a Hittite-Babylonian sun, storm, or warrior god, also perhaps associated with agriculture. The Greeks equated Sandan with Herakles (Hercules). At Tarsus an annual festival honored Sandan-Heracles, which climaxed when, as depicted on this coin, an image of the god was burned on a funeral pyre.

And here are a couple of cheap but awesome Romans. Like the Birytis piece at the top of this post, these both cost me somewhere in the $20-25 range, tops.



You know they're sharp when you can still see the pupil of the emperor's eye and the whiskers on his chin after he's been buried for sixteen or seventeen centuries.



Licinius I









Constantine II

oldlinecoins

Originally posted by: TomB

Originally posted by: dogwood

Of course circ cams arrived the way the are thru the partial cleaning of formerly dark coins but they sure are pretty there's no doubt about that.

I disagree with the above statement entirely. No doubt some coins received the look through a partial cleaning or intentionally being worn down, but that is no way, no how the case for an enormous number of pieces.



Think of it this way; take a table with some type of raised design or raised devices standing on its surface and then place grime, gunk, sludge, dirt or whatever you want on the surface. Now move that table around (shake it, tilt it, whatever) and where does all the dirt congregate? It would adhere to the edges of the raised devices and within any nooks and crannies in the raised design. Where would it be less likely to take hold? It would be less likely to take hold of the raised design or take hold of anything placed on the surface of the table.

This



I think this is something a lot of people aren't sure about. Thanks for explaining so well

stash

Here's some new bees .

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[URL=http://s1296.photobucket.com/user/stash38/media/2016-D Obverse_zpscjcvposi.jpg.html][/URL][URL=http://s1296.photobucket.com/user/stash38/media/2016-D Reverse_zpsugm272sg.jpg.html][/URL]



[URL=http://s1296.photobucket.com/user/stash38/media/2016-D-1 Obverse_zpssrk6i9w9.jpg.html][/URL][URL=http://s1296.photobucket.com/user/stash38/media/2016-D-1 Reverse_zpsw7v7rbet.jpg.html][/URL]

lordmarcovan

kaz

ProfLiz, thanks for posting that Connecticut commem, a beautiful look for myfavorite design. So many great looking coins posted. I corrected the spelling in the thread title, thanks LordM.









Not quite as far along on the CirCam scale as I might like, but enough to bring out the design elements. I also love this coin!

ldhair

ldhair

TennesseeDave

This is not my coin, but has the perfect look for this thread.

kaz

My own theory about CircCams is that many of them are coins that were used for a while, then put away and became tarnished. Later they were "found" and put back into use, rubbing off the tarnish and grime on the high points and to some extent the fields (with more oils and dirt deposited in the protected areas).

I look forward to coming home from the office and scrolling through this thread after a long day.

lordmarcovan

Originally posted by: kaz

My own theory about CircCams is that many of them are coins that were used for a while, then put away and became tarnished. Later they were "found" and put back into use, rubbing off the tarnish and grime on the high points and to some extent the fields

I can subscribe to this theory. That's pretty much how I always imagined it happening.

topstuf

I LIKE IKE! er.... I LIKE UNC !

but...

gotta admit that the circ cams are pretty cool.

stash

Originally posted by: lordmarcovan

Originally posted by: kaz
My own theory about CircCams is that many of them are coins that were used for a while, then put away and became tarnished. Later they were "found" and put back into use, rubbing off the tarnish and grime on the high points and to some extent the fields

I can subscribe to this theory. That's pretty much how I always imagined it happening.

Nice number on the posts ( 57570 ) ....

coinlieutenant

lordmarcovan

Topstuf- that's top stuf!



I do love a nice crusty Flyer.







Nice CoinLt stuff, too. The RE half is nice, and there's another Barber with THE look.

lordmarcovan

Darkside.

dogwood

Originally posted by: lordmarcovan

Originally posted by: kaz
My own theory about CircCams is that many of them are coins that were used for a while, then put away and became tarnished. Later they were "found" and put back into use, rubbing off the tarnish and grime on the high points and to some extent the fields

I can subscribe to this theory. That's pretty much how I always imagined it happening.

That might be too random to be normal. Maybe occurred, someone needed a long deposited quarter from some drawer and spent it.
But think about it. If that is the way the look came about, commerce rubbing after darkening thereby removing the "tarnish" on the high points, it utterly stands to reason that many cases of collectors simply getting lucky, finding a dark coin they liked somewhere, rubbed it with fingers or a cloth to reveal the devices contrast, while still appreciating the overall antique appearance?
Yes. Yes it does. And I don't think that's an awful thing.
I'm not going to argue with numismatic experts, or hijack a thread but I see many circ cam coins that got that way from cleaning. Full stop.
The clearest examples of this are the ones with vitiligo- blotchy light/dark staining on the high points. Barber halves are common with this. Especially earlier O mints. When one tries to abrasively clean a dark coin, it isn't uniform. Look at some of these again. It seems unnatural to me. A lot of those re-tone, giving back some aged look, but the deed is done.
I respectfully stand by my assertion. While many circ cams are naturally caused by dirt settling down low, and just good age, the majority are not. And that was my point.

LanLord

Originally posted by: lordmarcovan

I created the original CircCam thread (as well as the term), but since that's rather old and musty and a lot of the pictures are bad, I welcome a new one.



Nice stuff, y'all.



I'm a big fan of this look on circ silver, as you know.

Sooooo instead of referring to you as Lord Minivan should we call you Sir Cam?

lordmarcovan

@ dogwood- I think it's a case of "all of the above". Can happen a few different ways. While I subscribe to the kaz theory, I don't think yours is incorrect.



@LanLord- you may call me that, if you send me enough CAM coins to live up to the title.



(I get "LordMinivan" more often on the Darkside.)



Verily, thou art a deft punster.

lordmarcovan

More of my "bygones".

lordmarcovan

Digging this picture up to fit the requested parameters for FadeToBlack's birthday thread, I realized that my El Numero Uno (the very first coin in my collection, found on Thanksgiving Day of 1976) is now... a CircCam!



It was white or off-white when I found it, forty years ago next month. I probably cleaned it early on in my YN days, too, of course.



Still have it.

asheland

Originally posted by: lordmarcovan

Originally posted by: kaz
My own theory about CircCams is that many of them are coins that were used for a while, then put away and became tarnished. Later they were "found" and put back into use, rubbing off the tarnish and grime on the high points and to some extent the fields

I can subscribe to this theory. That's pretty much how I always imagined it happening.

+2

Crackout

lkeigwin

Eagleguy

Here is the Rhode Island I mentioned above. Again, no longer my coin but my photo.







Here are a couple of capped bust quarters to add to the thread

kaz

Thanks for the Pilgrim post, Crackout. the patina really enhances the design, IMO. And Eagleguy's ex-RI is very cool.

DDR

Here are a couple more for you to enjoy, Kaz: