Local dealer wont sell bullion till after election
piecesofme
Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
After work last Thursday I stopped at a dealer I've been going to for a long time, mostly just to say Hi because it had been awhile.
As some of you may know, I love the art bars. I noticed he had a 3 piece Set that caught my eye in the display case. We haggled for a bit, then I whipped out my hand held computer (iPhone lol) and looked on eBay for sold listings. There were about 10-12 auctions that had showed the Set being sold. I took the avg. of all Sets sold and took 10% off (Ebay & Paypal fees if he were to sell on there, which he does). I made him that offer. He refused.
Really wanting the Set, I made him an offer of just the avg. of the Sets sold on eBay...not factoring in the 10% beatdown every eBay seller takes. He still said no, and his response was "the election and then Christmas are only a few months away, i'll get $100 more for this Set after the election then leading into Christmas." I jokingly said, you might, but what's $100 between friends and I'm here now with cash. He still said no.
The bottom line was he basically wasn't selling bullion, not even generic, because he thinks he will get significantly more within the next 3-4 months. He would've sold me generic, but at the price he thinks he will get in a few months.
Is anyone esle experiencing anything like this where you buy from B&M's?
As some of you may know, I love the art bars. I noticed he had a 3 piece Set that caught my eye in the display case. We haggled for a bit, then I whipped out my hand held computer (iPhone lol) and looked on eBay for sold listings. There were about 10-12 auctions that had showed the Set being sold. I took the avg. of all Sets sold and took 10% off (Ebay & Paypal fees if he were to sell on there, which he does). I made him that offer. He refused.
Really wanting the Set, I made him an offer of just the avg. of the Sets sold on eBay...not factoring in the 10% beatdown every eBay seller takes. He still said no, and his response was "the election and then Christmas are only a few months away, i'll get $100 more for this Set after the election then leading into Christmas." I jokingly said, you might, but what's $100 between friends and I'm here now with cash. He still said no.
The bottom line was he basically wasn't selling bullion, not even generic, because he thinks he will get significantly more within the next 3-4 months. He would've sold me generic, but at the price he thinks he will get in a few months.
Is anyone esle experiencing anything like this where you buy from B&M's?
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
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I only cherry pick the odd stuff that shows up now and then at that price.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I knew it would happen.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Maybe the dealer is thinking, "if Pieces of Me wants to buy it, it must be Better Bullion and I can probably get a nice premium on Ebay"
c'mon Baley, stop with the trolling. He saw the same thing I was looking at when checking the sold items of the Set on eBay, then he's going to get hit with 13% in fees and shipping costs.
My final offer was the average of the 12 auctions, NOT factoring in the ~13% in fees, and he still would take it.
Not likely, he's been around 40+ years in the business and lives quite comfortably.
Also, if he sold it on eBay, he'd also be doing all the work, on top of the fees. He should have sold them to you and put the cash to work.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Just friendly joshing, but if it's trolling to you, sorry, I'll refrain. It's just that there's not much else to chat about these days.
Also, if he sold it on eBay, he'd also be doing all the work, on top of the fees. He should have sold them to you and put the cash to work.
Yes he should've. Some stuff that I get for a good price I will flip it if I dont have any collector attachment to it, but this Set would've been kept. He wanted me to pay $100 more than it's really worth maybe because I showed my hand too soon that I wanted it...but not for $100 more than I can take my chances on eBay for it.
As for waiting on the election, he didn't really elaborate and I didn't ask. I really think what he meant was that the Christmas shopping season will start right after that gets out of the way and people will have a better idea what kind of pain and suffering us Americans are in store for the next 4 years, at least.
for a set you really want to keep?
Maybe you should have paid the extra 100 dollars. After all, whats an extra 100 between friends.
for a set you really want to keep?
Well played Rooster1
Maybe you should have paid the extra 100 dollars. After all, whats an extra 100 between friends.
for a set you really want to keep?
Well played Rooster1
Proving once again on here how some people are asses that feel they just have to get that zinger comment in.
The whole point of the thread entirely missed by you two. It isn't about me, it's about the viewpoint of a dealer I frequent that has been around 40+ years that lives very comfortably and is probably right in his viewpoint based on his tenure in the hobby.
Maybe you should have paid the extra 100 dollars. After all, whats an extra 100 between friends.
for a set you really want to keep?
Well played Rooster1
Proving once again on here how some people are asses that feel they just have to get that zinger comment in.
The whole point of the thread entirely missed by you two. It isn't about me, it's about the viewpoint of a dealer I frequent that has been around 40+ years that lives very comfortably and is probably right in his viewpoint based on his tenure in the hobby.
I think you are missing the point of my comment. Isn't it ironic that you as the buyer feels $100 is no big deal for the seller to lower the price but you are not willing to do the same on your offer. Happens every day in business. Wasn't a comment or a zing directed at you, rather a very astute observation by Rooster1. Your comment about what's an extra $100 between friends came across as a bit sarcastic the way it was written and he picked up on that.
I am guessing that the dealer has to deal with people low balling him on a daily basis (even though you felt it was a fair offer) and he has heard that one a thousand times. You probably got his gruff up as I have yours.
One time I had a coin a top registry set needed. I had bought the coin for my type set to keep for 5-10 years....and felt the coin had good potential, to double or triple in price in that time. The potential buyer offered me about 25% more than I paid for it. That wasn't going to work for me. He finally told me to name a price....suggesting a price the coin could be worth a year from now. We settled on a price that gave me a 50% profit in one year. Within a couple years the coin doubled in price for him....it would have been a triple for me. Sometimes you do have to pay what something might be worth in the future.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
After 40 years in a B & M if someone pulled up average EBay sales to negotiate a price I would have told him to pound sand or laugh. Or both
mark
In my opinion eBay sales reflect retail prices. I feel that POM was quite fair in offering the current average eBay price considering the dealer wouldn't have to pay the eBay, PayPal, and shipping fees.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
After 40 years in a B & M if someone pulled up average EBay sales to negotiate a price I would have told him to pound sand or laugh. Or both
mark
In my opinion eBay sales reflect retail prices. I feel that POM was quite fair in offering the current average eBay price considering the dealer wouldn't have to pay the eBay, PayPal, and shipping fees.
If I was the B&M owner I would have pulled out my lease, payroll and utility bills to counter his EBAY examples.
Besides according to POM this is not the point anyways.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
After 40 years in a B & M if someone pulled up average EBay sales to negotiate a price I would have told him to pound sand or laugh. Or both
mark
In my opinion eBay sales reflect retail prices. I feel that POM was quite fair in offering the current average eBay price considering the dealer wouldn't have to pay the eBay, PayPal, and shipping fees.
If I was the B&M owner I would have pulled out my lease, payroll and utility bills to counter his EBAY examples.
Besides according to POM this is not the point anyways.
mark
What does your utility bills and rent have to do with what a silver bar or a coin is worth?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
After 40 years in a B & M if someone pulled up average EBay sales to negotiate a price I would have told him to pound sand or laugh. Or both
mark
In my opinion eBay sales reflect retail prices. I feel that POM was quite fair in offering the current average eBay price considering the dealer wouldn't have to pay the eBay, PayPal, and shipping fees.
If I was the B&M owner I would have pulled out my lease, payroll and utility bills to counter his EBAY examples.
Besides according to POM this is not the point anyways.
mark
What does your utility bills and rent have to do with what a silver bar or a coin is worth?
The same as AVERAGE Ebays sales dictates. I would have just stated Im on the high side. Some one has to be to develop an average.Would that be a justified retort? It's his merchandise. Surely you have noticed that silver art bars are not fungible.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
After 40 years in a B & M if someone pulled up average EBay sales to negotiate a price I would have told him to pound sand or laugh. Or both
mark
In my opinion eBay sales reflect retail prices. I feel that POM was quite fair in offering the current average eBay price considering the dealer wouldn't have to pay the eBay, PayPal, and shipping fees.
If I was the B&M owner I would have pulled out my lease, payroll and utility bills to counter his EBAY examples.
Besides according to POM this is not the point anyways.
mark
What does your utility bills and rent have to do with what a silver bar or a coin is worth?
oh, come on, have you never worked for a business?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
After 40 years in a B & M if someone pulled up average EBay sales to negotiate a price I would have told him to pound sand or laugh. Or both
mark
In my opinion eBay sales reflect retail prices. I feel that POM was quite fair in offering the current average eBay price considering the dealer wouldn't have to pay the eBay, PayPal, and shipping fees.
If I was the B&M owner I would have pulled out my lease, payroll and utility bills to counter his EBAY examples.
Besides according to POM this is not the point anyways.
mark
What does your utility bills and rent have to do with what a silver bar or a coin is worth?
oh, come on, have you never worked for a business?
I think you are confusing what a silver bar is worth with what the dealer needs to get to pay his expenses. Fortunately there are many venues to buy silver bars and the typical silver stacker can comparison shop for the best price.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
After 40 years in a B & M if someone pulled up average EBay sales to negotiate a price I would have told him to pound sand or laugh. Or both
mark
In my opinion eBay sales reflect retail prices. I feel that POM was quite fair in offering the current average eBay price considering the dealer wouldn't have to pay the eBay, PayPal, and shipping fees.
If I was the B&M owner I would have pulled out my lease, payroll and utility bills to counter his EBAY examples.
Besides according to POM this is not the point anyways.
mark
What does your utility bills and rent have to do with what a silver bar or a coin is worth?
oh, come on, have you never worked for a business?
I think you are confusing what a silver bar is worth with what the dealer needs to get to pay his expenses. Fortunately there are many venues to buy silver bars and the typical silver stacker can comparison shop for the best price.
This^ The dealer has minimal bills for his business. Word of mouth of his fair business practices have spread throughout the decades and he is well respected within the collector community as well as with his customer base, therefore no need to advertise. He's been in the same building for almost 30 years, it's paid off. His son works for him, this is his only real expense. To argue that utlities are the thing which makes or breaks his business staying afloat at this point in his carrer is just silly LOL.
I never said I had a problem with him, he's a great fair dealer, one of the few that are left like him. All I'm saying is in all the years I've done business with him, he has never had this "approach" of waiting a few months. He's a flipper just as any dealer should be to stay successful.
The $100 difference between friends comment was taken by him to be exactly what it was meant to be from me, a little joke. We both know the difference of the value of $100. If he feels he can get that extra $100 in a couple months, more power to him. The whole POINT of this thread was AGAIN, to show that a dealer wont sell bullion at this time because of HIS hunch of higher values in the relative short term, that's all. This thread was never about me as some have tried trolling it out to be.
If I were a dealer and wanted to keep my customers happy, I would sell my inventory at prevailing market prices, not at what I "think" I might get three or four months down the road. As a customer, I'd be put off if a dealer gave me that as a reason for not selling. If a dealer is convinced that a rise in the price of silver is just around the corner, he can always buy silver ETFs or options or futures or mining stocks. Mixing speculation and customer service is fraught with pitfalls.
If it were anyone else but him, I'd be slightly put off too, but not enough to cause me to never go back. This hobby (because that's what it ultimately is) is about relationships. I never said I took anything personal from the dealer actions, he has every right to conduct his business the way he chooses to. I was just bringing it to the attention of this board and asked if anyone else was experiencing this with the B&M's they visit...the last sentence of my OP.
Nothing directed toward you Overdate, just venting a bit I guess at the total and complete misunderstanding of some here that have their own agenda. Meaning that they pretend to misunderstand the point and twist it around like I'm complaining about something, when in reality, all I did is ask a question.
bob
What he knows that you do not know is what are his Christmas sales on bullion? I suspect he has quite a local following for silver in Christmas stockings and perhaps has worked hard at generating that holiday business. He knows for a fact that he can raise his prices and he'll get it from the locals.
bob
This, or he knows several customers from each of the political views who he thinks will go full survival bunker mode if their candidate doesn't win. Kind like the ferry driver in Jose Wales. Gotta know both of them battle hymns by heart.
My Ebay Store
Go Jose!
bob
What he knows that you do not know is what are his Christmas sales on bullion? I suspect he has quite a local following for silver in Christmas stockings and perhaps has worked hard at generating that holiday business. He knows for a fact that he can raise his prices and he'll get it from the locals.
bob
This, or he knows several customers from each of the political views who he thinks will go full survival bunker mode if their candidate doesn't win. Kind like the ferry driver in Jose Wales. Gotta know both of them battle hymns by heart.
Excellent points!
What he knows that you do not know is what are his Christmas sales on bullion? I suspect he has quite a local following for silver in Christmas stockings and perhaps has worked hard at generating that holiday business. He knows for a fact that he can raise his prices and he'll get it from the locals.
bob
And if they sell it to a local collector rather than a potential flipper, he might get it back again to work another selling commission. Once your local dealer realizes you routinely buy and sell stuff, they view you as competition, basically a dealer. My local shop stopped selling anything to me other than material they couldn't place with their regular customer base. While it's frustrating, that's economics.
Seems like a poor business model to refuse to sell inventory for 2 months on a hunch.
My YouTube Channel
Lots of folks want tomorrow's price today. In coins, metals, cars, houses, land etc. It doesn't mean you have to buy it. Again, there is so much STUFF to buy in the world, I try not to get too attached and move on. Particularly if I feel a person is gloating or enjoying to toy with me withholding a sale. Ill keep my money for a deal that I don't have to force, and usually they're right around the corner.
Very well said!
My YouTube Channel
After 40 years in a B & M if someone pulled up average EBay sales to negotiate a price I would have told him to pound sand or laugh. Or both
mark
Heck, you'd have handed him the mallet to pound the sand with!
After 40 years in a B & M if someone pulled up average EBay sales to negotiate a price I would have told him to pound sand or laugh. Or both
mark
Heck, you'd have handed him the mallet to pound the sand with!
On the other hand a smart B&M operator would recognize that ebay is competition. Put me in the camp that believes ebay is a good indicator of what buyers will pay.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
After 40 years in a B & M if someone pulled up average EBay sales to negotiate a price I would have told him to pound sand or laugh. Or both
mark
Heck, you'd have handed him the mallet to pound the sand with!
On the other hand a smart B&M operator would recognize that ebay is competition. Put me in the camp that believes ebay is a good indicator of what buyers will pay.
Agree with this. With eBay and all the other internet venues a coin collector no longer has to put up with a rude local B&M coin dealer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
After 40 years in a B & M if someone pulled up average EBay sales to negotiate a price I would have told him to pound sand or laugh. Or both
mark
Heck, you'd have handed him the mallet to pound the sand with!
On the other hand a smart B&M operator would recognize that ebay is competition. Put me in the camp that believes ebay is a good indicator of what buyers will pay.
Very true
My YouTube Channel
Anyway you slice it bad business on his part. (With the possible exception that he has customers who come in willing to pay over Ebays pricing and that's the real reason he didn't want to sell them to you)
another viewpoint is the buy price might be lower in a store to compensate. The old "I've got overhead" line from Pawn Stars comes to mind.
just something else to think about.