You know what steams my beans? Double standards (BST)

oih82w8

I was discussing a potential BST with a well-known dealer and they would purchase my coins for "regular strike" since these were not "well known" to regular collectors. BUT would sell their coin as a variety (almost triple the regular strike issue) which was also a not "well known" version, to me at least. I asked how does that work? They never heard of my varieties, but they were familiar with theirs a specialized series dealer. I will not mention specifics series, dates and varieties due to an on-going negotiation.



I told them that I would sell mine as a "regular strike" if they would do the same with theirs. Of course they laughed that off while I retained my composure. Then it struck them that I was indeed serious. I said that they were trying to enforce a double standard and being hypocritical about varieties.



All of the coins on the table are attributed varieties through PCGS and were indicated as such on the label inserts. I guess I just don't understand the haggling process. Could someone please edify me on this process from a dealers stand point?

bigjpst

I have personally found that many variety collectors tend to like to cherrypick their own varieties, and that trying to sell them for premiums is sometimes very difficult. Many dealers (even specialty dealers) are not willing to pay for the variety (Unless it is very rare and they have an end buyer already) because they have experienced the same thing.



If you went to the trouble and expense to pick, submit with designation, the only real option you may find yourself with is to sell to a collector, which may be tough to do. That is not to say it won't happen, but it can be very enlightening.



Varieties can also come and go into popularity. Several years ago just about any Top 100 VAM or Hot 50 with or without designation by grading company would bring some premium, but now most are just treated as generics. Goldberg had a large collection of VAMs a couple auctions ago and most that had any reserve or high opening bid went unsold. All the ones I saw that actually sold went for no premium at all.

I also see this on GC where varieties with high opening bids go unsold week after week.



Just my two cents

keets

the formula I use is simple, tried and true --- I set my mind on a selling price and if I can't get that from a dealer I move on. there's no need to get your boxers-in-a-bunch about it. besides, the "Variety Market" is pretty much one way except for the biggest and bestest ones that everyone wants. for most stuff, you find it raw and sell for a profit, then move along.

291fifth

Much of the "cherry-picker" market is strictly a one-way market ... "I want to sell this to you at a big premium but have no interest in paying a premium for them since I only "make my own."

oih82w8

Good stuff...

joeykoins

I see what you mean when you say, the variety is hard to sell! A couple of months back, I cherrypicked the famous, " Superbird" Quarter. Nobody seems to be biting for a fair price that I'm looking for. Ebay or dealers. It's raw and in beautiful Proof condition at that. However, not a Cameo. I'm asking the fair price of $100. (at least I think that's a fair price?) Dealers are only willing to go as low as $40. That's crazy! One thing the cherrypicker has to have is a whole lot of patience.

logger7

I know an accountant who doubles as a vest pocket and show dealer who has a problem with the truth. I have tried to counter that by telling dealers who he does the critical analysis on; coin is "scratched" (when it is market acceptable); no market for those now; coin has "wear" when it is actually not and should grade low MS; the bids "just dropped"; many other diversions to gain a seller's willingness to sell below wholesale exist, personal problems, slams against others--none of course which is relevant to real market values and the business at hand. Some dealers don't give anything away if it runs counter to their self interests. "It is naught, it is naught, saith the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth."(Pr 20;14)

lordmarcovan

Originally posted by: 291fifth

Much of the "cherry-picker" market is strictly a one-way market ... "I want to sell this to you at a big premium but have no interest in paying a premium for them since I only "make my own."

Yes... this.



Small wonder I have little interest in die variety minutiae.



Then again, there have been times I have rethought my stance on die variety minutiae...

TopographicOceans

My first dealer transaction was as a kid at the local coin shop.

I bought Lincoln cents as VF for $X. When I wanted to upgrade to XF not only did the price come down (the buy/sell spread) but also the grade!!

So he would offer to pay $x-$y for a F grade when he sold it to me as VF

oih82w8

Originally posted by: lordmarcovan

Originally posted by: 291fifth

Much of the "cherry-picker" market is strictly a one-way market ... "I want to sell this to you at a big premium but have no interest in paying a premium for them since I only "make my own."

Yes... this.



Small wonder I have little interest in die variety minutiae.



Then again, there have been times I have rethought my stance on die variety minutiae...

Your link must be something good...ACCESS DENIED

lordmarcovan

Originally posted by: oih82w8

Originally posted by: lordmarcovan

Originally posted by: 291fifth

Much of the "cherry-picker" market is strictly a one-way market ... "I want to sell this to you at a big premium but have no interest in paying a premium for them since I only "make my own."

Yes... this.



Small wonder I have little interest in die variety minutiae.



Then again, there have been times I have rethought my stance on die variety minutiae...

Your link must be something good...ACCESS DENIED

Hm. Dunno why. Anyway, it was just the old story about Cladiator buying a holed 1806 DB half from my old Holey Coin Vest, then putting it on eBay, where it fetched $1,801.00 after two Overton variety Bust half collectors realized it was a previously unknown variety and bid it up. It became the 1806 O-129 discovery coin. I never knew what I had and never would have learned, had I kept it.

mustangmanbob

The story:



Man is looking at an item at an Antiques store.



Another man comes in with a chair and asks how much it is worth.



The dealer studies it, finds the caning is separated, 3 splits in the wood, evidence of water damage, and the chair is longer square, but slightly twisted.



The man is visibly shaken, and repeats "How much is it worth then?"



The dealer replies, No more than $5.



Man sighs, reaches in his wallet, and pulls out a $5, and tells the dealer, "It was marked $75 outside, but I knew that could not be right." and walks away with his newly purchased chair.

bigole

Congrats on this thread. Makes me think about things I haven't been thinking about. A lot of good posts so far.

keets

guess what I just found??? going through some dollars we have and stumbled onto an unattributed 80/79-S high seven.

TwoSides2aCoin

I can't make heads or tails of it, but variety is the spice of life.

OriginalDan

Originally posted by: mustangmanbob

The story:



Man is looking at an item at an Antiques store.



Another man comes in with a chair and asks how much it is worth.



The dealer studies it, finds the caning is separated, 3 splits in the wood, evidence of water damage, and the chair is longer square, but slightly twisted.



The man is visibly shaken, and repeats "How much is it worth then?"



The dealer replies, No more than $5.



Man sighs, reaches in his wallet, and pulls out a $5, and tells the dealer, "It was marked $75 outside, but I knew that could not be right." and walks away with his newly purchased chair.

This is great!

Wabbit2313

Originally posted by: mustangmanbob

The story:



Man is looking at an item at an Antiques store.



Another man comes in with a chair and asks how much it is worth.



The dealer studies it, finds the caning is separated, 3 splits in the wood, evidence of water damage, and the chair is longer square, but slightly twisted.



The man is visibly shaken, and repeats "How much is it worth then?"



The dealer replies, No more than $5.



Man sighs, reaches in his wallet, and pulls out a $5, and tells the dealer, "It was marked $75 outside, but I knew that could not be right." and walks away with his newly purchased chair.

Awesome!

Bochiman

To the OP,



I'm not surprised. It's part of the reason that I gave up even thinking about varieties for many issues.

They sound good, they feel great when you find/cherrypick them, but the market is usually slimmer than slim.



Gotta find the right person who wants them, and at the right time. I'm just not feeling it most of the time.



I stay to the larger things, such as the 55/55 DDO Lincoln and a few others.



Heck, I can't even think about doing things like bust halves because of all the little things there, and because of the overton system, they are easily more saleable.

Cameonut

I have dabbled in proof varieties over the years - cherrypicked many from dealers that didn't care what they had.



Problem is, unless it is a "big one" (read that listed in the Redbook or in a Registry Set) there is a very thin market. Even being in the Cherrypickers guide doesn't do much for many. This means that dealers know they will sit on them for some time and either don't make an offer or offer very low prices.



I had two well known variety dealers look over two boxes of slabbed varieties and one bought zero (not interested, and I think he wanted to cherrypick me) and the other bought two at bargain prices.

Bayard1908

Could someone please edify me on this process from a dealers stand point?

This dealer views you as a fish to be taken advantage of, not as a negotiating party of equal standing. Take your business elsewhere.



Since all the coins are varieties, this isn't about the thinness of the varieties market. It's about predatory behavior by the dealer.

Bob1951

It has always been this way. When I try to buy a coin it is very rare and XF and when I go to sell the same coin it is the commonest coin on the planet and only grades F now. Slabs have changed the game but only slightly. When I buy a slabbed coin it is under-graded by at least one grade(according to the seller) and when I go to sell it it is over-graded(according to the buyer). Part of the game I guess.



Varieties, depending on collector interest may or may not sell for more money. Some dealers will pay more for them and some wont. You need to find a dealer that will sell them on consignment and pay a little extra perhaps, but you may get more if the dealer sells your coin if he/she is not willing to buy it himself. You could try ebay and let the buyer "discover" the variety by listing it as a common coin and not mentioning the variety (this has worked for me more than once). If two or more bidders "discover" the variety then a bidding war may ensue.

oih82w8

Most of the varieties that I acquire I do send 'em in for attribution and TrueViews, in quantity of course. There are the occasional pieces that someone else buys from me before I get it attributed and they are happy without the insert label identifying in as such.

ricko

I am sure, that somewhere in my collections, there are some varieties. Likely minor since I know the major ones....I just have never been interested enough to diligently research everything...and years ago, did not even consider the minor ones. Just do not have the time for it now.. Cheers, RickO

Moldnut

I alway like the spamming of the rip on here and then placing on the BST too.

halfhunter

Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin

I can't make heads or tails of it, but variety is the spice of life.

That's what my ex wife said before her 6th marriage . . .



HH