Are there coins that have no chance of ever being upgraded or downgraded?

mercurydimeguy

Coins that will always be at their assigned grade, other than problem coins?



If so, I'd love to see any images of such examples, and if not, I'd love to understand your reasoning.



Thanks!

TopographicOceans

Never say never.
Grading standards seem to fluctuate so the plastic they are in today may not be the plastic they die in.

TwoSides2aCoin

Understanding : A difficult chore.

ricko

The potential for grade change is significant.... general trends, new grading standards, new TPG's....So there is always the potential for change. Cheers, RickO

LindeDad

Many museum coins are not graded. Some are just nailed to the wall it seems.

Danye West

Low-end P-1 coins won't upgrade or downgrade.

A real MS-70 should never downgrade.

A toner without a color bump shouldn't downgrade.

TONEDDOLLARS

Yes , Laura calls them dreck

stealer

Yes. There are plenty of coins graded X that are far too nice to ever be in an X-1 holder and way too dog s*** to be in an X+1 holder.

Just scour eBay or HA, you'll find plenty examples on both sites. I like to refer to these coins as "stuck." I'll remember to save the next example I come across.

Think of them as coins that are in quality purgatory. They're somewhere between a B and C quality coin. C's are prone to downgrading, and even B's have a chance at upgrading.

ProfLiz

Obviously, if grading standards change, *any* coin might change grades (depending on how the standards shift).

But as long as standards remain constant, bottom-of-the-grade coins might downgrade, top-of-the-grade coins might upgrade, and middle-of-the-grade coins should stay where they are, unless the grader has an opinion very far from the mean (i.e. makes a mistake).

However, I am a bit surprised at how everyone is referring to these coins as dreck, stuck, or in purgatory. Don't we call them "solid for the grade"? And can't they be attractive examples?

When I first started collecting as an adult, I purchased a common date Morgan in PCGS MS65. It was a really pretty coin with a clean cheek, and I really thought it should upgrade. (Ownership adds a point!) So I sent it ATS....came back 65. Sent it back to PCGS....yup, 65. Did I mention I was a beginner?

Anyways, I still own that coin. It is a very attractive MS65, way too clean ever to downgrade, not nearly the quality to upgrade. It's solid for the grade - and a really nice coin.

roadrunner

I've owned/handled some MS65 and MS66 seated coins that were given gifts to be in the holders they ended up in. Some have been downgraded since because they were nearly unsaleable in the higher graded holders for anything but the next grade down. I've never been the recipient of such favorable upgrades, unfortunately.



The Pittman 1844-0 seated quarter was graded NGC MS66 out of that sale. There's no chance imo it would ever go higher. I graded the coin 64+. I'm pretty sure it's still in that 66 holder. Most of its auction appearances are for around MS64+ money. A solid MS65 of this date should sell for $10K-$16K or so. A real MS66 should be at least twice that. It's been on the market for nearly 20 years now. And one think if there was an opportunity to get it downgraded to a more valuable PCGS MS65 CAC, it would have been done. I think this coin sold for around $12K-$13K during the 2007-2008 market peak. Considering Pittman owned it, and it graded MS66, I don't think you can call it a "problem" coin.



Pittman 1844-0 auction appearances at Heritage



The Pittman 1857-0 half currently in an NGC MS65 holder should never go any higher in the future. Note that when it sold around 2006 or so it fetched typical MS64 money in a 65 holder. It's the only MS65 or higher graded for that date though.



An 1841 half in PCGS MS65 that I briefly owned via Pinnacle about 10-12 years ago appeared to be a recent upgrade as the MS64 pop was way too high for that date. I thought it likely someone tried it a lot of times to get that 65. I would have kept the coin if I felt it was solid for the grade. But, it had a lot of obverse hits that to me defined it as a 64/64+. I flipped the coin to Heritage for a small profit since it was a pop 1/finest graded at that moment in time.



With some reflection I can think of many more coins I've handled or owned that just can't go any higher under the current system. An 1853 A&R half I once owned used to be NGC MS65. I knew that coin would never go higher than that. It's now in a PCGS MS64 CAC holder. So now it could possibly go higher someday. Legend once owned an NGC MS66 1851 half (ex-Evergreen collection 2002). They had that coin in inventory for a couple years. Eventually they downgraded it to PCGS MS65. That coin in the MS66 holder just wasn't ever going to go any higher. There are lots of coins out there that are currently maxed out. You either have to change the system again, or downgrade the coins to give them a shot of going back up again. Actually, I think the majority of coins holdered since 2002 should not go any higher (ie only the high end coins should have a chance).