As we all know, you can't always go by the price guide....

Bochiman

Sometimes, the price guide is pretty accurate.

Sometimes, it isn't.



Toning, and frequency of trades of similar, can really make a difference.



Here, for instance, is one that shows as a $300 coin. I didn't pay that, and, if you are a fan of toned copper, you may not agree with that value either.....



Anyway, for enjoyment.....

roadrunner

In 80-95% of the cases I don't go by the price guides because those are in many cases MAX retail prices, typically 50% above dealer wholesale/buy back prices. At least PCGS price guide is set up that way. I suspect several of the others are too. Multiplying by 60-70% usually gives a more realistic number. For a typical $300 coin, I'd shoot for paying $180-$225. Just taken as they're written, most price guides are in the retail stratosphere.



Now for better date and tough type material in the 18th-19th century the above approximations won't work. And 19th century proof copper that is more red than brown, with attractive toning is one of those cases. Very nice proof Indian cent with desirable magenta and yellow.

golden

Nice.

MFH

Love it - almost makes me want to start another set of IHC's !!

fivecents

Beautiful.

Quality is worth paying up for.

sparky64

I really like your IHC and I'm glad to hear your assessment about price guides and certain coins.



I was really doubting myself when I paid a fair bit over guide for a toned Proof IHC.

roadrunner

Originally posted by: CA5MAN



I'd however like to know who is this mystery person assigned the task of "guessing" numbers for coin with no sales history?

Someone has to "guess" or better state, approximate those values. Having a dashed line for a price doesn't help any either. You can often get a fair approximation of a rarely seen coin by using comparison pieces in that same series. I've had to do that a number of times when evaluating rarely seen better date choice/gem unc specimens.



If you're going to bidding on a pop 1, finest known that hasn't been seen before, or at least not in 20 years, then you'd better get a system to approximate value. The Child's 1804 $ and Eliasberg 1822 $5 haven't traded for approx 20-35 years each. Yet, we know the serious bidders have methods to figure out what they should pay. For starters, they will compare those pieces against other high profile, 7 figure coins that have sold in the past several years. What would J-1776 sell for if auctioned today seeing as there are no recorded prices in approx 40 years. When the Eliasberg coins sold in 1997 a lot of those no recent price records, yet bidders figured it out. Why can't a top cataloger figure it out too?



Then again, when coins have actually sold at auctions in recent years why can't the price guides reflect that? A PCGS MS67 1867-s was listed at $50K when there wasn't one graded yet. NGC had that coin graded 67 (now CAC) and it has traded twice for much more than that ($74K in 2004 and $88K in 2015). The PCGS price guide still has this as $50K despite the coin recently crossing to PCGS MS67 CAC. Beats the heck out of me.

steveben

yeah, you gotta pay up for the good ones. the price guide is only a guide.



i love the toning around the eye. it's like it was painted on!



when an IHC is toned nicely, have you noticed the features of the lady's face get color in all the right places? i assume this is due to the work of a master engraver!

Bochiman

Originally posted by: sparky64

I really like your IHC and I'm glad to hear your assessment about price guides and certain coins.



I was really doubting myself when I paid a fair bit over guide for a toned Proof IHC.

We have a few handfuls of toned IHCs. Have had to always "pay up" as nice ones aren't cheap.



That said, there are dealers that prey on this and really price them HiGH, just hoping for a suc....errrrr.....someone to know they have to pay up and not realize how much is too much. Not all dealers...some are very realistic and reasonable. Mark Feld was one of those.



I may have missed out on a few really nice ones, but I also kept money in my pocket for other coins and I do NOT feel buried in any of these.

Purfrock

Wonderful pickup!

Desert Moon

Originally posted by: roadrunner
For a typical $300 coin, I'd shoot for paying $180-$225. Just taken as they're written, most price guides are in the retail stratosphere.

Well, either you are buying C or D coins for the grade, or you have a better ability than I to pick out bargains for A and B coins. When I look at PQ coins for the grade, if I can pay accepted market values and not the next grade up price, I am in heaven. Okay maybe I am one of them suckers, but I do have some pretty amazing coins that I paid crazy money for...... Er, like, my avatar

Best, SH

Desert Moon

Originally posted by: Bochiman

Originally posted by: sparky64
I really like your IHC and I'm glad to hear your assessment about price guides and certain coins.

I was really doubting myself when I paid a fair bit over guide for a toned Proof IHC.

We have a few handfuls of toned IHCs.

Who is we? This is a gorgeous IHC Proof!

Best, SH

roadrunner

Originally posted by: spacehayduke

Originally posted by: roadrunner

For a typical $300 coin, I'd shoot for paying $180-$225. Just taken as they're written, most price guides are in the retail stratosphere.

Well, either you are buying C or D coins for the grade, or you have a better ability than I to pick out bargains for A and B coins. When I look at PQ coins for the grade, if I can pay accepted market values and not the next grade up price, I am in heaven. Okay maybe I am one of them suckers, but I do have some pretty amazing coins that I paid crazy money for...... Er, like, my avatar



Best, SH

Your wonderful avatar coin falls under the exemption I included from my earlier post. No, I can't buy such coins for 60-70% of price guide either. 80-90% of the coin market is just stuff and product that is bought at a fraction of price guides. Coins like your avatar are in the minority.





Now for better date and tough type material in the 18th-19th century the above approximations won't work.

Desert Moon

RR thanks for reiterating, thaz what I thought - hard to find the good ones at generic pricing.

Best, SH

Bochiman

Originally posted by: spacehayduke

Originally posted by: Bochiman

Originally posted by: sparky64

I really like your IHC and I'm glad to hear your assessment about price guides and certain coins.



I was really doubting myself when I paid a fair bit over guide for a toned Proof IHC.

We have a few handfuls of toned IHCs.

Who is we? This is a gorgeous IHC Proof!



Best, SH

Thanks.



"we" is my son and I.

ricko

That is a very nice addition to your IHC collection Ron... Congratulations.. Cheers, RickO

topstuf

According to my daily Heritage "Rare Coin of the Day" emails, the PCGS prices are WAY too high.

$10,000 and $11,500 in the PCGS price guide and Trends, respectively. Offered at $7,750

Near-Gem and finer examples such as this are still challenging today. Only 5 have been graded higher by PCGS. Listed at $17,500 and $22,500 in the PCGS price guide and Trends, respectively. Offered at $12,500

Listed at $29,500 and $35,000 in the PCGS price guide and Trends, respectively and Greysheet bid is $27,000. We expect this one to sell very quickly. Ready, set, go! Offered at $21,500

and so on and so forth.

COINS MAKE CENTS

Very pretty toner there

asheland

Nice IHC!