Can an eBay seller charge a restocking fee on a return?
BaltimoreYankee
Posts: 3,026 ✭✭✭✭✭
I just bought a 'NM' 1979 Topps basketball set that definitely falls short of my definition of NM.
I saw that the seller offered a 14 day return policy so I ignored the red flag of not many close up photos (it's a cheap set anyway).
When I looked at the fine print of the return info, it says buyer must pay return shipping and a 25% restocking fee. Do I have a case with eBay on this, being that the item was not as good as advertised? I'm willing to pay the return shipping but the additional 25% sounds pretty shady.
I saw that the seller offered a 14 day return policy so I ignored the red flag of not many close up photos (it's a cheap set anyway).
When I looked at the fine print of the return info, it says buyer must pay return shipping and a 25% restocking fee. Do I have a case with eBay on this, being that the item was not as good as advertised? I'm willing to pay the return shipping but the additional 25% sounds pretty shady.
Daniel
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Comments
Did he state his restocking fee in the item description or did he use the method described above?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Did he state his restocking fee in the item description or did he use the method described above?
The restocking fee is not mentioned in the description. Under returns, it says "14 days money back, buyer pays return shipping" It's only when I clicked 'see details', that it says there will be a 25% restocking fee. I just looked now and noticed it also refers to the shipping (25% of that). Pretty crazy. It's a cheap set and I imagine the seller would just return the whole amount. I wish people would just be conservative when selling
I don't think it matters what his policy is if the set was not as described. I would open a SNAD claim if he doesn't refund you in full upon return.
This.
You stated that you ignored the "red flag" of poor photos and it's a cheap set, why not honor the conditions of the auction and pay a little closer attention next time?
Not trying to "bust your chops" here, but ebay allows sellers to charge a restocking fee, possibly to keep buyers from buying and then returning items they don't really want.
Selling on ebay is getting to be quite the pain in the but. Maybe you could contact the seller and agree on some kind of compromise?
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Why should the buyer honor the terms of the auction when the seller misrepresented the condition of the cards he was selling? That is where the responsibility lies, and why ebay has a SNAD option. Sellers ought not to misrepresent their items so they don't have to hide behind the fine print when called out on it.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
File a SNAD complaint.
Dave
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
why not honor the conditions of the auction and pay a little closer attention next time?
Why should the buyer honor the terms of the auction when the seller misrepresented the condition of the cards he was selling? That is where the responsibility lies, and why ebay has a SNAD option. Sellers ought not to misrepresent their items so they don't have to hide behind the fine print when called out on it.
I happen to think the buyer has some responsibility in a transaction as well. If it's the item I saw, This one? seller asks to be contacted if there are problems. Has this been done? Seller states customer service is his number one priority. If this is the set in question, I sure wouldn't have bought it with the scan provided, shows virtually nothing.
The risk in selling on ebay is on the seller. As stated in a different post, ebay sides with the buyer in most if not all disputes. It costs the seller to list and ship his items, why shouldn't the buyer have to assume some risk as well? If you are going to put too many obstacles on sellers, you are going to lose the good as well as the bad.
OP admitted despite "bad scans" he bought the item. If this was indeed the item I found, it was an auction, so there was plenty of time to at least request a better scan.
25% on a restocking fee seems too high, but that was part of the agreement between the two parties. Perhaps ebay should make that more obvious in the item description. I know I am going to begin putting it in my descriptions manually from now on.
I guess it's easier just to go ahead and buy an item and open a SNAD instead of asking a question or reading all the details of the listing. After all, ebay will side with the buyer. Don't even bother to contact seller if you aren't happy with the item.
Seems like BOTH parties could have done a better job here. I would at the very least contact the seller before opening a SNAD claim and find out if customer service is his number one priority.
You paid $33 for a set the seller called NM. Sets that sellers call Mint sell for about $50. You don't buy NM sets on the cheap expecting them to contain Mint cards, and then abuse the return policy when you receive cards with defects making them only NM. The red flag for you to go away should have been the seller calling the set NM because you weren't looking for NM cards. The picture was fine for somebody who was just looking to buy a cheap NM set. There was no fluff or puffery in the title or description, just a NM set. Your kind of purchase is exactly where a restocking fee should be used to discourage running a free no risk approval service for buyers with unrealistic expectations.
It's a cheap set and I imagine the seller would just return the whole amount. I wish people would just be conservative when selling
And a whole lot of sellers probably wish buyers looking for Mint cards would stop messing up their auctions for NM cards.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-80-TOPPS-BASKETBALL-COMPLETE-SET-132-NEAR-MINT-ALEX-ENGLISH-ROOKIE-/351719799832
You paid $33 for a set the seller called NM. Sets that sellers call Mint sell for about $50. You don't buy NM sets on the cheap expecting them to contain Mint cards, and then abuse the return policy when you receive cards with defects making them only NM.
You couldn't possibly know if he is "abusing the return policy." He said they fall short of *NM*, not *Mint*. If you buy cards that are described as NM, then they have to be NM. Obviously grading cards is subjective though - especially when it's a whole set.
I am assuming the cards were not NM as described. If that is not the case, my opinion may be different, then.
The value of the set is not relevant, IMO.
If the set is truly not as described, that is why the SNAD process is in place. Sellers should not be permitted to misrepresent an item and subsequently profit from that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I just bought a 'NM' 1979 Topps basketball set that definitely falls short of my definition of NM.
This is tough.
First, a 25% restocking fee is absurd, but it would be frustrating to have an item returned because an arguably subjective definition of "NM."
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
You paid $33 for a set the seller called NM. Sets that sellers call Mint sell for about $50. You don't buy NM sets on the cheap expecting them to contain Mint cards, and then abuse the return policy when you receive cards with defects making them only NM.
You couldn't possibly know if he is "abusing the return policy." He said they fall short of *NM*, not *Mint*. If you buy cards that are described as NM, then they have to be NM. Obviously grading cards is subjective though - especially when it's a whole set.
EXACTLY CORRECT about grading. Grading is subjective, buyers and sellers have been disagreeing on condition from day one. Scans showed nothing (to me). If you are going to go "fishing" you can always throw what you "catch" back, but sometimes you lose your bait, in this case restocking fee.
Sellers have the option of charging a restocking fee to stop buyers from abusing the return policy, but now buyers say "wait a minute, that's not fair" well, it's fair people. Read the entire terms of a deal before you enter into it, then abide by those terms.
If scans aren't provided that a buyer can determine if cards are of the claimed grade, and he doesn't ask for better ones, he should NOT get to look them over at home for free and then return them. OP admits he ignored "red flag" of bad scans. If I were buyer in this case I would keep the cards and simply say to myself "lesson learned". Otherwise, I would politely ask seller if we could work something out.
Personally, I never buy anything that has a poor scan unless I want it in virtually any condition. I assume there's a reason the scan is bad. I always provide a high resolution scan of items I sell so this kind of thing doesn't happen.
EXACTLY CORRECT about grading. Grading is subjective, buyers and sellers have been disagreeing on condition from day one. Scans showed nothing (to me). If you are going to go "fishing" you can always throw what you "catch" back, but sometimes you lose your bait, in this case restocking fee.
Sellers have the option of charging a restocking fee to stop buyers from abusing the return policy, but now buyers say "wait a minute, that's not fair" well, it's fair people. Read the entire terms of a deal before you enter into it, then abide by those terms.
What about *ebay's* rules? You might not like it, but I'm pretty sure that a restocking fee does not apply when it's SNAD. Ebay's rules are far more powerful than a seller's rules.
I was just expecting a NM set. I'll scan the Alex English rookie tonight to give you a good laugh. There are 132 cards in the set. Maybe 2/3 are NM but there are way too many with corner dings to my liking. I've been buying and selling on eBay since 2001. I may have returned 5 things since then. I am certainly not a return abuser and definitely did not expect Mint. Didn't mean to create a dramatic thread - I really just wanted to know if someone could bury a '25% restocking fee', sell an overgraded set and get away with it.
BaltimoreYankee, I am in no way bashing you. As a veteran buyer, you should have simply moved on with such poor scans (in my opinion). The lack of a scan of the (key card?) English rookie would be another huge red flag.
A 25% restocking fee is high, I charge 15%.
In the case of any restocking fee, ebay should make it more obvious, but seller did list his terms. By bidding and winning, you agreed to them. I would contact seller to see if he will negotiate a lower fee, if not, return them and pay the fee or just keep the cards and be more careful in the future. Small cost really imo.
EXACTLY CORRECT about grading. Grading is subjective, buyers and sellers have been disagreeing on condition from day one. Scans showed nothing (to me). If you are going to go "fishing" you can always throw what you "catch" back, but sometimes you lose your bait, in this case restocking fee.
Sellers have the option of charging a restocking fee to stop buyers from abusing the return policy, but now buyers say "wait a minute, that's not fair" well, it's fair people. Read the entire terms of a deal before you enter into it, then abide by those terms.
What about *ebay's* rules? You might not like it, I'm pretty sure that a restocking fee does not apply when it's SNAD. Ebay's rules are far more powerful than a seller's rules.
I can't speak for ebay, ultimately they will have final say. As I understand it, a restocking fee is just that, a charge for putting your item back into your inventory.
If you don't like the terms set forth in the listing, don't bid, win, and then complain. Coupled with the basically worthless scan, no one other than a new ebay buyer should have bid. In that case I would have had sympathy for the buyer.
What that really means is that 2/3 were better than NM, and the 1/3 not to your liking had defects and/or dings associated with NM cards. The picture in the listing shows the typical kind of cards that you'll get from different sellers who will list that kind of set anywhere from NM to MT. The seller was conservative and called the set NM, and at $33 it sold for considerably less than the $50 range that sets called Mint sell for. There's nothing wrong with trying to get a good deal but calling this a case of SNAD is ridiculous. If the seller called the set MINT you can hold them up to a higher standard, but a seller calling the set NM is trying to scare away problem buyers.
I did message the seller yesterday stating that I'd like to return the set but don't want to pay the restocking fee (the 25% also applies to the $8 shipping charge - nice touch!). I got a reply today stating (all caps): "IF YOU ARE UNHAPPY PLEASE RETURN". No mention either way about the restocking fee. As a seller, I would have replied, "first of all, sorry you didn't like the cards, and secondly, yes, please return the set and no worries, I will waive the restock fee". (But that's just me).
I can't say who's right or wrong in this case, but eBay will rule in favor of the buyer. Always.
The terms of the deal included receiving NM cards. If they weren't NM, then the seller violated the terms of the deal.
Furthermore, ebays rules regarding SNAD are the overriding terms of this and any other deal done on ebay.
To be expected to pay 25% in a restocking fee when the item was not as described (and thus on the seller) is beyond foolish. I'm very confident the OP will (and should) get a full refund.
This thread smells of grumpy old man.
Get off of our lawn!
The terms of the deal included receiving NM cards. If they weren't NM, then the seller violated the terms of the deal.
Furthermore, ebays rules regarding SNAD are the overriding terms of this and any other deal done on ebay.
To be expected to pay 25% in a restocking fee when the item was not as described (and thus on the seller) is beyond foolish. I'm very confident the OP will (and should) get a full refund.
Grading is subjective. People even disagree on graded cards. Sellers opinion was cards were NM so you can't really prove he violated terms.
I agree his fees are high and ebay will side with buyer.
The simple fact is that if buyers would have the consideration they expect............no demand, from sellers, this wouldn't have happened. Anyone bidding under the stated conditions is asking for problems and he got them. Seller offered his cards and stated his terms. Bidders did not have to bid, even though 6 did.
If you don't like the terms don't bid on the item. Seller will not be a problem. Buyer will not have a problem.
edited to add; after reading all the conditions seller has, I really don't know why anyone would bid on anything he offers.
The terms of the deal included receiving NM cards. If they weren't NM, then the seller violated the terms of the deal.
Furthermore, ebays rules regarding SNAD are the overriding terms of this and any other deal done on ebay.
To be expected to pay 25% in a restocking fee when the item was not as described (and thus on the seller) is beyond foolish. I'm very confident the OP will (and should) get a full refund.
Grading is subjective. People even disagree on graded cards. Sellers opinion was cards were NM so you can't really prove he violated terms.
I agree his fees are high and ebay will side with buyer.
The simple fact is that if buyers would have the consideration they expect............no demand, from sellers, this wouldn't have happened. Anyone bidding under the stated conditions is asking for problems and he got them. Seller offered his cards and stated his terms. Bidders did not have to bid, even though 6 did.
If you don't like the terms don't bid on the item. Seller will not be a problem. Buyer will not have a problem.
edited to add; after reading all the conditions seller has, I really don't know why anyone would bid on anything he offers.
But you have to keep in mind that part of the "terms" of anything sold using ebay's platform is that if an item is not as described that supersedes all of the terms that a seller may have.
The OP bid with confidence based on ebay's protections, knowing those are part of the "terms". So taking it a step further, if the seller doesn't like the terms - don't sell on ebay.
Understanding that grading is subjective, it doesn't sound like we are talking about borderline NM v. EXMT cards here.
The terms of the deal included receiving NM cards. If they weren't NM, then the seller violated the terms of the deal.
Furthermore, ebays rules regarding SNAD are the overriding terms of this and any other deal done on ebay.
To be expected to pay 25% in a restocking fee when the item was not as described (and thus on the seller) is beyond foolish. I'm very confident the OP will (and should) get a full refund.
Grading is subjective. People even disagree on graded cards. Sellers opinion was cards were NM so you can't really prove he violated terms.
I agree his fees are high and ebay will side with buyer.
The simple fact is that if buyers would have the consideration they expect............no demand, from sellers, this wouldn't have happened. Anyone bidding under the stated conditions is asking for problems and he got them. Seller offered his cards and stated his terms. Bidders did not have to bid, even though 6 did.
If you don't like the terms don't bid on the item. Seller will not be a problem. Buyer will not have a problem.
edited to add; after reading all the conditions seller has, I really don't know why anyone would bid on anything he offers.
But you have to keep in mind that part of the "terms" of anything sold using ebay's platform is that if an item is not as described that supersedes all of the terms that a seller may have.
The OP bid with confidence based on ebay's protections, knowing those are part of the "terms". So taking it a step further, if the seller doesn't like the terms - don't sell on ebay.
Understanding that grading is subjective, it doesn't sound like we are talking about borderline NM v. EXMT cards here.
If you don't have a meeting of the minds on condition, it doesn't automatically mean the seller is wrong. Seller states (although it is not obvious) that if you wish to return the item a (ridiculous?) charge will be applied. If you don't like it, DON'T BID.
Ebay doesn't allow for a no return policy, so a seller should be able to recoup some of his investment on a return. I don't like this seller, but he states his conditions. By bidding you accept them.
The terms on ebay are already much tougher on sellers than buyers. Enough is enough.
If you don't have a meeting of the minds on condition, it doesn't automatically mean the seller is wrong.
Nor does it mean that the buyer is wrong.
Seller states (although it is not obvious) that if you wish to return the item a (ridiculous?) charge will be applied. If you don't like it, DON'T BID.
Does not apply in SNAD cases. If a seller doesn't like ebay rules, he shouldn't sell on ebay.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
But he IS selling on ebay, and is not the person bringing the problem to these boards.
I also don't like that sellers ask/demand payment within 4 days. Ebay always gave you 7. I just don't bid on their items. You can't force people to stop playing games, so why get into it.
No surprise this seller in his response to OP's inquiry, seems to want that restocking fee, all you have to do is read his listing to see he wants his cake and eat it too.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sel...-not-as-described.html
"Responding to a return request when the item doesn't match the listing description
If a buyer wants a refund for an item that didn't match the listing description:
We ask the buyer to ship the item back to you - with tracking information - within 5 business days.
Your refund to the buyer is the total purchase price plus the original shipping charge.
***You're also required to pay for the return shipping charges and you can't charge a restocking fee.***"
There you have it. If the buyer thinks the set is not NM, he can return it and get 100% of his money back. Dems the rules.
Y'all sure are a passionate bunch.
I did message the seller yesterday stating that I'd like to return the set but don't want to pay the restocking fee (the 25% also applies to the $8 shipping charge - nice touch!). I got a reply today stating (all caps): "IF YOU ARE UNHAPPY PLEASE RETURN". No mention either way about the restocking fee. As a seller, I would have replied, "first of all, sorry you didn't like the cards, and secondly, yes, please return the set and no worries, I will waive the restock fee". (But that's just me).
Hi Daniel. I am not particularly passionate here, just expressing my feelings.
In coming out and saying you "didn't want to pay the restocking fee" this guy was most likely going to respond as he did. Offering to split the cost would have made you look much better, but I understand where you are coming from.
I am sure you will have to file a SNAD or the restocking fee may be automatically deducted from your refund.
I too am a seller on ebay, although primarily a buyer. It looks like we have the same thoughts on selling. Unfortunately guys like this give sellers a bad name.
If I remember correctly his item description (generic) says all cards are NM unless noted so if you got some bad ones, you should win here.
Have a good evening!
From ebay...
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sel...-not-as-described.html
"Responding to a return request when the item doesn't match the listing description
If a buyer wants a refund for an item that didn't match the listing description:
We ask the buyer to ship the item back to you - with tracking information - within 5 business days.
Your refund to the buyer is the total purchase price plus the original shipping charge.
***You're also required to pay for the return shipping charges and you can't charge a restocking fee.***"
There you have it. If the buyer thinks the set is not NM, he can return it and get 100% of his money back. Dems the rules.
No surprise.
As promised, here's a scan of the key card in the set, the Alex English rookie card:
Wow, that's a horrible card.
I also don't like that sellers ask/demand payment within 4 days. Ebay always gave you 7. I just don't bid on their items. You can't force people to stop playing games, so why get into it.
wow
I also don't like that sellers ask/demand payment within 4 days. Ebay always gave you 7. I just don't bid on their items. You can't force people to stop playing games, so why get into it.
wow
+1. Wow.
I also don't like that sellers ask/demand payment within 4 days. Ebay always gave you 7. I just don't bid on their items. You can't force people to stop playing games, so why get into it.
wow
+1. Wow.
+2
This is why I don't list condition of cards providing there isn't a crease, stain or other major defect. I take lots of scans/pictures. If I was selling that set, I would have listed it as EX-NM and showed a scan of the Alex English. Seller's fault.
Though, as a buyer, I would never buy a set listed with a picture like that. It's just asking for a headache. Plus its a $30-50 set...why not pay 10.00 more for a better set with quality pictures?
Lastly, the seller actually has a card shop in Milwaukee (20mins from me), called Gunderson's sports cards. I don't shop there as it looks like a episode of hoarders inside. Plus I only buy graded/vintage wax. Not to get side tracked but, you could probably call them as you can google their number.
In conclusion, I hope you learned a lesson not to bid on auctions without seeing more pictures. Always ask the seller for more pictures, in this case, scans of the top 3 cards in the set.
4 really dinged corners, badly o/c, and at least one crease.
PSA 2 or 3 at the very best
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
In conclusion, I hope you learned a lesson not to bid on auctions without seeing more pictures. Always ask the seller for more pictures, in this case, scans of the top 3 cards in the set.
You've got it backwards. The seller is the person that is going to learn a lesson.
I am glad that Feebay has started to crack down on seller shenanigans like this one, especially the retaliatory feedback thing.
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