62 vs 58

Gazes

There are certain series of coins such as Liberty gold from branch mints where the highest graded coin may be ms-62. Even if ithe 62 is not the highest graded it may put it in the top few. If I were to ask collectors would you rather have a 62 accurately graded or a beautiful au-58 with tremendous eye appeal --I think most would say the au-58. My question is than why is the 62 valued so much higher if collectors seem to prefer the au-58 with eye appeal ?

coindeuce

All it takes is two numbnuts who think that all that ever matters is the number on the holder, and possibly only one can be the king of the hill. EOR.

younique

Agreed, however the numbnut who has the 62 will sit on top of his financially productive hill

coindeuce

Originally posted by: younique

Agreed, however the numbnut who has the 62 will sit on top of his financially productive hill

Not if they are the only one other than the underbidder who believes that the holder number trumps merit of better eye appeal of an AU58.

tradedollarnut

Real life example. Finest known MS62 vs second finest known AU58

halfhunter

This thread and the above photos have got me thinking . . .

it's kind of a sad day for coin collecting when the value of a coin is determined by a number on a holder rather than the beauty of the coin.



HH

renomedphys

In my world, and the world of the numismatists with whom I travel, aesthetic qualities win out over numeric ones all the time.

leothelyon

But..........no matter how it gets chalked up, there's always someone who will disagree. And that my friends must be a constant PITA with the graders.


Leo

jtlee321

I'd take the one that grabs my eye. In those cases, most likely my wallet and my sense of pride in ownership will be dancing on cloud 9.

oih82w8

Excellent visual aide TDN...I prefer the lower, more eye appealing Seated Dollar, so would my "slush fund".



After taking a little closer look...damn! I did not take into consideration the Date/MM combo...RARE ladies indeed!



Should have known better, coming TDN...usually bringing in the esoteric.

Gazes

Thanks for the posts. The reason for my original post was a coin I saw on Doug Winter's site (unfortunately it was already sold when I saw it). It is a 1848-C Quarter Eagle PCGS AU 58 CAC. Doug describes it as one of the most perfect circulated 1848-C's he has seen. He goes on to say there really is no wear ---just minor friction from storage. Tremendous eye appeal. I looked at the pops for this coin and there are two 61 and two 62s. None have been stickered. A 62 I am sure would go for more than twice the $6000 Doug was asking. Which brought me to my OP--if most people would prefer a virtually perfect AU 58 why spend twice the amount on an avg. 62?

tradedollarnut

Do note that usually the perfect 58 costs 62 money....either because the seller charges that or because it's in a 62 holder.

Mark

TDN (or anyone else):



Where is the rub on the AU58? I sure don't see it in the picture.

Overdate

Eye appeal, wear, strike and marks are all separate characteristics combined into one grade. If eye appeal were the only criterion, some collectors would prefer to own a nice-looking AU58 rather than an ugly MS65. But most collectors are willing to pay up for these other features. That's the rub.

Insider2

IMO, both coins have loss of luster on the high points (friction wear, cabinet friction, whatever). The toning on one coin hides the wear.



Collectors want unc's and they'll pay for them. They have been taught for decades to buy the best grade. So demand for Unc's caused AU's to be pushed into Unc range.

roadrunner

Originally posted by: Gazes

Which brought me to my OP--if most people would prefer a virtually perfect AU 58 why spend twice the amount on an avg. 62?

Because I'm not most people. If the MS62 is ok for the grade and "really" uncirculated, I'd prefer that to the AU58 that is really worn, even if the 58 might be "prettier" and a lot cheaper....particularly if the date is essentially unheard in uncirculated grades. This happens quite a bit for silver and gold 19th century Liberty coinage. Would I prefer a really pretty and scarce AU58 1858-0 seated quarter or an honest to goodness no rub full luster MS62 that is really hard to find any nicer? I'll take the MS62.....just I like I would with TDN's only known unc MS62 1870-S $. There's a home for every coin. If "full luster/no rub" is your major criteria for a difficult 18th/19th century set, and that's usually the case if choice/gem unc coins are your preference, then the AU58 typically won't qualify, no matter how pretty.....unless....it happens to be the finest known.

DIMEMAN

TDN - Which one is the 62???? I know which one I like and I also think I know which one should be the 62. But if the top one is the 62 SOMETHING is wrong.

roadrunner

Originally posted by: DIMEMAN

TDN - Which one is the 62???? I know which one I like and I also think I know which one should be the 62. But if the top one is the 62 SOMETHING is wrong.

I had to use his link and check as well. I thought the lower coin could be the 62 at first. Nope...it's the upper one with less "wild" toning. Doesn't matter. I'd still want the one with no rub and full luster. No doubt in hand the difference would be more obvious.

DIMEMAN

Boy, Pics must be deceiving.......the upper one looks to have the wear to me.

DIMEMAN

Looking again - that has to be wrong. Compare the breast and the stars. The bottom one is all there whereas the top one is not.

oih82w8

I would rather have an eye-appealing 58 than a "blah" 62 any day of the week. Here are a couple of 1872-S H10C that I presently possess, one 58 and one 63;

ad4400

Originally posted by: Gazes
There are certain series of coins such as Liberty gold from branch mints where the highest graded coin may be ms-62. Even if ithe 62 is not the highest graded it may put it in the top few. If I were to ask collectors would you rather have a 62 accurately graded or a beautiful au-58 with tremendous eye appeal --I think most would say the au-58. My question is than why is the 62 valued so much higher if collectors seem to prefer the au-58 with eye appeal ?

I think '62 accurately graded' is the key phrase here, and it that case, in my series of preference (buff nicks) I would take a 58 over an 'accurately graded' 62 just about any day, as an 'accurate graded' 62 buff nick probably isn't going to be nice at all. That said, at least for buff nicks, 62 is a often a market grade for uber AU buffs, and I have purchased a number of those. I just checked my track record when I submitted those coins after a stint in my album, and NONE graded 62 a 2nd time: two upgrades and two downgrades to 58. I guess leads to the further question, what is a 62 really?

When asking why the 62s bring such a big premium, are we really taking about the 'accurately graded' 62s, or are we talking about the market grades, in which a collector may indeed think that the piece is rather PQ for the numerical grade, if not aware of the market grade phenomenon.

tradedollarnut

Originally posted by: roadrunner

Originally posted by: DIMEMAN
TDN - Which one is the 62???? I know which one I like and I also think I know which one should be the 62. But if the top one is the 62 SOMETHING is wrong.

I had to use his link and check as well. I thought the lower coin could be the 62 at first. Nope...it's the upper one with less "wild" toning. Doesn't matter. I'd still want the one with no rub and full luster. No doubt in hand the difference would be more obvious.

The top coin is an accurately graded MS62. The bottom coin is MS58. There are test scratches under the toning about Liberty's head. I know of an 1873-CC that I also consider to be MS58. Will try to dig up a pic

tradedollarnut

1873-CC

oih82w8

That 1873-CC Liberty Seated Silver Dollar. AU-58 (PCGS) CAC is a real beauty!

tradedollarnut

Originally posted by: oih82w8
That 1873-CC Liberty Seated Silver Dollar. AU-58 (PCGS) CAC is a real beauty!

Yes, I used to own the coin. Full luster with a test scratch and what looked like album slide marks on the high point of Liberty's leg

MS58

lkeigwin

Some folks talk about AU58's as if they're all stunning with slight rub. And all MS62's are unappealing visually. Nonsense.



In the bust half world a nice 62 trumps a nice 58 as does a mediocre 62 over a mediocre 58. Obviously, a beautiful 58 may be valued higher than a so-so 62. I can't imagine anyone surprised by this.

Lance.

Baley

I always wince a little at "MS62 or AU58" because I think that the AU/BU grades of 59, 60, ad to a certain extent 61, are underused. Sometimes, that's what I think the coin grades and I mislike having to "choose"...

amwldcoin

While not all, Many Barber Half's in 58 trump Mid to Higher Grade MS coins. The prices reflect it also. Yes, the Everyman sets have something to do with it but I have several 58's I could have bought an ugly 65 for less than the 58 I bought! 2 come to mind that were available at the same time. I purchased the 58 and I have absolutely no regrets!

georgiacop50

Thread title could be changed to:



62=58

Overdate

Originally posted by: Baley
I always wince a little at "MS62 or AU58" because I think that the AU/BU grades of 59, 60, ad to a certain extent 61, are underused. Sometimes, that's what I think the coin grades and I mislike having to "choose"...

59?